I told myself this weekend that I was done writing about the Ypsilanti City Council race, but, now that I sit here, thinking over how I’m going to vote tomorrow, I find that I have one more thing that I’d like to say… Before I get to it, though, I’d like to preface it by saying that, in the ten years of running this site, I’ve never endorsed a candidate for local office. Yes, I’ve gone knocking on doors for Gore, Kerry and Obama, and written about those experiences here, but I’ve never told anyone, for instance, who I wanted to be our Mayor. I’ve never worked on a local campaign, and, to my knowledge, I’ve never had a single sign in my yard supporting a ballot initiative. For some reason, it has been important to me to stay impartial. And I’ve tried, to the best of my ability, to stay evenhanded when writing about things like the proposed City income tax. People, I’m sure, had ideas as to which side of the debate I was on, but I tried, as best that I could, not to use this platform to lobby one way or the other. Rightly or wrongly, I thought that what I’d created here was too important, and too fragile to monkey with. I thought that, as soon as I weighed in on an issue, I’d run the risk of changing the dynamics, and jeopardize the often fruitful conversation that takes place in the comments section. As you’ve no doubt noticed, however, I took a turn about a week ago, and actively came out against Mike Eller.
I did this not only because I found Eller’s politics to be beyond the pale, but because no one else in the “media” seemed to be talking about his history as someone who has actively fought against civil rights, anti-discrimination, public transportation, alternative energy, recycling and any number of other things that I hold as sacrosanct. In spite of this, though, had he not chosen to run as a Democrat, I likely could have found a way to keep my mouth shut. I knew that I didn’t have a choice, though, when I heard that a relatively progressive friend of mine was supporting him, having been taken in by his message of fiscal responsibility. When I heard that, I jumped into the fray, pumping out post after post about his racist, sexist and homophobic views, as expressed through the far right organization that he, until recently, led – the America First Party of Michigan… One more thing. Someone, a few days ago, said that I was grandstanding. They said that I was going after Eller because I wanted to make more of a name for myself. You can believe me or not when I say this, but I would much rather have written about other things this past week. This was not something that I wanted to do. I feel as though it has hurt this site, and, quite frankly, it has depressed the hell out of me. But I couldn’t, in good conscience, just sit by and not say anything.
At this point, I should add that I don’t have any great love for Pete Murdock, for whom I will be voting tomorrow. Rightly or wrongly, I blame Pete for much what we’re dealing with today, in terms of the toxic political environment in which we find ourselves. Maybe Ypsi politics has always been toxic, but I first noticed it when Pete, who was then aligned with Steve Pierce, set out to kill the first city income tax ballot initiative put before voters. Generally speaking, I found their side to be less than honest and transparent. I also found them to be unwilling to engage in constructive dialogue. They were interested, in my opinion, in winning at all costs, and they employed tactics that would see this accomplished, regardless of the damage done to our community. And, to some extent they were successful. Pete Murdock and Brian Robb both got voted onto City Council, where, a few years later, they supported the City income tax that they previously conspired with Pierce to scuttle. Now, of course, things are different. Steve, for whatever reason, has changed teams, and he’s now working with Mike Eller, a man whom, just four years earlier, he actively campaigned against, alerting people, via a website that he’s since taken down, as to his radical views, which, at least then, Pierce knew ran contrary to the norms of our community. But, now Pete’s on the outside, and I’m going to be voting for him to keep Mike Eller out of power. Such is politics in small town America… I should add, in Pete’s defense, that he has been, in my opinion, a good member of Council, in spite of my initial concerns. He’s been responsive to my needs as a constituent and he appears to care passionately about things that I believe in, like public transportation, environmental stewardship and civil rights. Furthermore, he’s knowledgeable about the City’s finances, and I respect him for changing his tune, and supporting the City income tax, even though he knew that doing so would make it harder for him to win reelection. Regardless of how you feel about the income tax, I don’t see how you could not respect that. But, as I said, I’m still a bit conflicted, given the history… My friend Murph, Ypsi’s former city planner, had the following to say about Pete yesterday, in an email he sent to friends.
I usually stay pretty quiet on Ypsilanti’s local elections–and often believe there are multiple good candidates in races. This time, though, I will say that I strongly and enthusiastically support Pete Murdock for the 3rd ward Council seat.
The main reason is that Pete has proven, time and again, to have the combination of ideas and experience that we need on Council. With the fiscal problems that we face, we need Council to have institutional knowledge about how things work and get done–and we need it now, not after a 2-year learning curve. While I certainly have my disagreements with some of Pete’s decisions, it’s always clear that he’s done his homework and has sound reasons. He’s going to all the meetings of the neighborhood and business associations, he’s constantly going to the neighborhoods and downtown businesses for feedback, and he knows who to work with to get what done.
If you want a Council that’s finding a way to squeeze money out of the budget to maintain police and fire service: vote for Pete. If you want a Council that’s finding ways to keep the streets paved, the buses running, and the water mains fixed: vote for Pete. If you want a Council that’s proactively applying incentive programs to support homebuyers and business owners: vote for Pete.
Any other vote in the 3rd Ward is a vote against tackling our problems in a timely fashion. “Fresh ideas” are fine, but only if you have the knowledge of how Ypsi (and Washtenaw, and Lansing) works, and can use that knowledge to make your ideas work.
So, with all of that said, I hereby endorse Pete Murdock for Council, and encourage you to vote for him enthusiastically.
Oh, one more thing… A friend wrote to me a few days ago and told me that, while out walking his dog, he struck up a conversation with a neighbor who had an Eller sign in her front yard. When the friend asked why she was supporting Eller, she said that she knew about his statements concerning homosexuals, and how we should allow them all to die of AIDS, but that she already paid enough in taxes, and didn’t want to pay any more. And, I’ve heard similar things from others. Some people, it would seem, are willing to put up with a little hate, if it means more money in their pockets. Leaving aside for the moment just how sickening that is, do people really think that’s how our City Council works? Do they really think that Murdock, if he wins reelection, will raise their taxes? Don’t they recall that, not too long ago, we voted as a community not to institute a City income tax? I’m assuming they don’t. Because, if they did, they’d know that Council doesn’t have the power to pass an income tax. It has to come before the voters – those of us who actually pay the taxes.
People seem to be mad that Murdock was one of six on Council who supported bringing the idea of an income tax to a vote. What do they think Eller will do differently? Will he fight to keep it from coming to a vote? Is that what people want? As disgusting as it is that people would vote for this man just to keep their taxes low, the thing that really bothers me is that their reasoning just doesn’t make logical sense. Members of Council can’t pass taxes. Eller, however, if he does win, can do a number of things that, in my view, are not consistent with the values of this City as I know them. He could, for instance, employ his racist/sexist/xenophobic views when hiring City employees, fight to overturn the City’s anti-discrimination ordinance (a cause which he’s contributed financially to in the past), work to weaken zoning ordinances, work to bring businesses to Water Street that do not reflect the future direction of our community, end recycling, stop walkability initiatives, and any number of things that really will negatively impact life in this City that we call home… And, that, my friends, is why I’ll be pulling the lever for Pete Murdock tomorrow morning.
61 Comments
Polls open at 7:00 AM and stay open until 8:00 PM.
Well heck, I came here hoping to find a viable write-in.
I am heading to the poll at the church to pass and literture and help Pete. I hope others do the same. I have coffee.
I never thought I’d find myself rooting for Lois and Pete. These are indeed strange times we find ourselves living in.
This statement actually could have a real impact on people’s tax bills, and their city services
“work to bring businesses to Water Street that do not reflect the future direction of our community”
It still boggles my mind that so many of you are against development of water street, if the businesses that move in arent in line with your wishful thinking. Wouldnt an Aldi or a Chick-Fil-A or a cash advance center be better than nothing? Getting some tax money from that property is the goal. The market determines which businesses can be viable there. If there wasnt a market for more fast food and discount shops, then those places wouldnt want to open up businesses there.
Dan, NOTHING is the better alternative than Chick-Fil-A, Aldi’s or a cash advance center. Chik-Fil-A promotes a culture that is abhorrent to the majority of Ypsilantians, Aldi’s is a German multi-national that will simply suck our money off to German investors—and why would we want another institutional loan shark in our midst. Dan you morals are truely imparied by your infatuation with markets—how is that currency speculation working out for you.
I want for there to be a massive check cashing complex with a plasma center at its core, surrounded by a ring of fast food establishments, on Water Street. That’s what a successful Ypsilanti looks like to me.
I’m in Murdock, Ward 3; so I haven’t thought much about Pierces run against Lois Richarson. Isn’t Pierces run for that seat, like pushing a boulder up a really steep hill?
Beside right around Pierces house and block. Where is Pierce going to find a shit load of votes to take Lois? Just Curious?
I saw Eller standing outside the Adams School Polling Station this morning.
No sub Woofers and loud music playing for him.
He put up a bunch of No Tax, Stop Water Street.
YEHAAAAAAAAAAA!!! Get er done, he’s even farther right of that quote, Terrible.
Well, good luck to us.
Pierce is hoping that Tyrone and Lois split the black vote, and that he can sneak up the middle. He’s also hoping that he can do a better job of mobilizing his white voters than they can their black ones. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s picking people up and giving them rides to the polls on the back of his Segway. As others have stated, this is what he lives for. I don’t think it would be an exaggeration to say that he’s put in 100x the effort that Lois has, and invested quite a bit of his wife’s money.
From an Eller supporter on Facebook:
“Efficiency wins. For every 5 minutes Mike spends with a no vote he could be finding two more yes votes which is exactly what he has been doing. He really can win this thing and when he does, I know he will be kinder to most of you than you have been to him.”
Dan, the “hard working” research scientist at the gigantic tax sinkhole with 3 seperate Ayn Rand clubs, who lives in Ann Arbor, wants to see animal mass-murdering hate mongers who seek to criminalize homosexuality, and loan sharks who thrive on creating inescapable downward spirals of debt, to take up residence in Ypsilanti for expediency’s sake. Dan, thanks for your insightful input, we’ll take it under advisement. Next time you have an idea about the wellbeing of Ypsilanti which sickens our people and enslaves them, we’ll ask you for it.
Great post and it touches on exactly why I am sitting this round out even if it means I don’t get one of those cool ‘I Voted’ stickers. My terminal hopefulness keeps me hoping that maybe next time around we will get someone more interesting to run.
Many of the candidates need someone to proofread their handbills. They and the company who printed them should be ashamed.
wobblie, I’m generally with you in opposing Chick-Fil-A (actually any fast food chain) and cash advance establishments in the Water Street property. But I question whether Aldi is so terrible that it’s better to leave the land vacant AND force people to travel to Ypsi Township or Pittsfield Township to shop at other large grocery chains like Wal-Mart, Kroger, or Meijer. (Let’s be honest, most Ypsilantians are not doing all their shopping at the food co-op or Dos Hermanos.) And sure, Aldi is a huge company, but both Wal-Mart and Kroger are bigger. Even Meijer is (barely) on about the same order of magnitude as Kroger and Aldi — all earn revenue in the tens of billions of dollars.
Sure, I’d rather have a locally owned independent grocer, like a Spartan Stores affiliate, but let’s not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
There is no room for letting more sociopathic personalities into our government at any level, local or otherwise. None. Their motives can’t be trusted.
wobblie,
I not a currency speculator. But, since you asked, my self directed 401(k) has earned 11.68% this year. How’s your portfolio looking?
Thom,
you and your clan of hipsters may like to live in your fantasy world where every storefront is rented by a non profit, or locally owned cafe. But look around Ypsi. The only thriving businesses are fast food joints and prostitution/strip clubs. Burger joints and fried chicken joints are the bread and butter of ypsi. Sorry, but thats the market you live in.
I also find it quite amusing that a debt collector for Wall Street Credit Card companies is bashing cash advance centers and calling them loan sharks. Truly, your hypocrisy is stunning.
“The only thriving businesses are fast food joints and prostitution/strip clubs.”
wherever you live, please stay there. your perspective is so blind.
“Aldi’s is a German multi-national that will simply suck our money off to German investors”
Aldi also owns Trader Joes. How many of you shop there?
like i said, kjc, the only places that were interested in investing in Water Street were fast food joints and stores catering to low income people. Why do you think that is?
It’s amazing to see so many people prefer to eliminate fire and police positions, because they wants some fantasy world development of Water Street.
I do not know and, have never spoken to Mike Eller. I am not in his Ward so haven’t given him much thought FWIW though his company, Populist, cleans a place where I worked. One of his employes was a flamboyant male who appeared (very obviously) to be transitioning to a female. I know that they were aware of each other because I’ve seen them in the same room. Unless he was hired as a bizarre joke the reputation outlined here, of Eller, does not match my experience and I can say that whatever his personal views are, he does not discriminate in his hiring practices.
Dan — you are so wrong. The Ypsilanti Food Coop has tripled its sales since 2005. YFC is one of the MOST thriving businesses in Ypsilanti. Why don’t you do a little research?
just thinking of local businesses that i frequent: yfc, dos hermanos, the rocket, beezy’s, pita pita, la fiesta, the wurst bar, ugly mug, the bomber, the new somalian restaurant, not to mention value world, big lots, walgreen’s.
none of those are fast food or check cashing places. but i know you don’t SEE those places. your own uninformed and uninterrupted impression is sacred to you. which is fine. i’m glad people who see things your way don’t hang out in ypsi.
Aldi, as I understand it, decided not to pursue Water Street. They were not rejected. So, much of this discussion is pointless. The only company turned away, as I understand it, was Burger King. Their offer was taken seriously, but it was determined that they would not have created enough jobs, etc, to make it a worthwhile move for this city, and it would clearly dictate the future opportunities for the land.
As for Eller hiring a transgender person, I don’t doubt it. Cheap labor trumps everything else.
and Lisele, please tell me about Kroger, Meijer, Walmart, and the other 2 Kroger sales, in comparison to Ypsi Food Co-op. Like another poster said, sure, you may buy your food there, but he vast majority of Ypsilantians dont. They worry more about price than local/organic/etc. The vast majority of Ypsilantians arent wealthy and have to make decisions about where to save money. I know that’s a foreign thought to kidless hipsters, but you’re the minority in the city. By far
kjc,
How many novelty toys have your bought from the Rocket in the past 5 years? What was the total cost of those? And do you think Big Lots and Walgreens are local corporations? And I’m pretty sure Big Lots is in Pittsfield, but I could be wrong. Anyhow, it’s no better than Aldi or Walmart. Giant multi national corporations set on putting local businesses out of business.
And I do hang out in Ypsi city. But pretty much the only place worth going to these days is Sidetrack. The Red Rock is pretty good BBQ, but I didnt like the place in general. Not really sure why. Maybe they hadnt figured things out yet when I went there. Satchels in AA is much better, imo.
And Los Amigos on the outskirts of the Twp towards Van Buren is light years better than la fiesta.
Do you live in the city, Dan? If not, why do you continue to leave comments here? What’s the attraction?
anonymous,
no i do not. I live in the COMMUNITY though, and what happens in Ypsi, sadly, doesnt stay in Ypsi.
It’s the same reason mark and you all comment about what happens in Detroit, or Wisconsin, or Lansing. Because it still affects you.
Sorry you have to weed through my posts. Hate for you to have to hear from someone outside of your long bearded circle jerk
Also, I wanted to add to my earlier post, in which I shared the following comment made by an Eller supporter on Facebook.
“Efficiency wins. For every 5 minutes Mike spends with a no vote he could be finding two more yes votes which is exactly what he has been doing. He really can win this thing and when he does, I know he will be kinder to most of you than you have been to him.”
What I didn’t mention was that this was left in response to another individual, who shared a story about Eller appearing on his doorstep one morning while out campaigning. Eller rang his bell, and when this guy answered, the candidate went into his high tax talking points. Then, when the homeowner asked about the America First Party, Eller just turned and walked away. He didn’t talk with the homeowner at all. He just moved on to find the next person who wasn’t aware of what he was all about.
“And Los Amigos on the outskirts of the Twp towards Van Buren is light years better than la fiesta.”
that tells me all i need to know about your taste.
i’ve bought gifts from the Rocket this year at least four times. not novelty toys though. they have other things. not that you’ve been there. and one can shop cheaply at the co-op if you don’t buy packaged foods. i know lots of low income people who shop there. i could go on but again what’s the point. your mind is closed.
“And I do hang out in Ypsi city. But pretty much the only place worth going to these days is Sidetrack.”
not even close.
Knox,
So, if you are correct, the ONLY company willing to build on Water Street was a fast food company with a dilapidated store almost directly across the street, that is would have shut down? Over about 10 years or so?
And people here think they should be selective on who their potential tax paying investors should be?
Thats insane to me.
And how, exactly, does it affect you if we choose not to have a Burger King on Water Street? Are you not able to haul your ass a few more blocks down the street, to the one we already have? I can see how someone might be interested in these issues, but the amount of vitriol you express seems odd for someone who doesn’t live here.
@Knox
Doubt all you want, what I wrote is a true story from my personal experience.
kjc,
Ypsi used to attract a college crowd, even from UM students, with mainstream bars on Washington and the like. Now, they’ve all closed down. There is absolutely NO reason for a UM group of students to venture into Ypsi now. Like it or not, but they filled the Piano bar and Pub 13 on the weekends. Not that those were my cups of tea, but they drew a different crowd from the Elbow Room and now the Wurst Bar and Woodruffs. College kids spend money (albeit money they dont have, but that just lines the pockets of one Thom Elliott). Aubrees still brings in a college crowd. Sidetracks less so. But other than that, it’s all dive bars with drunken idiots or hipster bars with noise “music.”
There’s almost zero reason for 25-32 year old mainstream people to come into Ypsi from outside of it. But as you’ve said, you dont want us there anyway. Enjoy the EMF to keep the dream of your hipster paradise alive.
and anonymous,
It certainly affects me when the city of Ypsi goes bankrupt, property values continue to plummet, school districts get close/consolidated/ perception of the area gets worse, etc
there are countless things that you people in the city continue to fuck up that fucks things up for the rest of us. Conversely, there are also many things you guys continue to fuck up that leads to investors deciding to move a mile south or west and open up business in a more tax friendly atmosphere.
So, yes, everything you guys do in Ypsi City affects me.
dan, i agree. you can’t find your crowd in our little city. we can’t accommodate your mindset.
kjc,
thats probably 100% true.
But the thing you dont realize is that, there are 50 of me, to everyone 1 of you. So called mainstream people drive the world. You cant survive in your little isolated community. You want Ypsi to be outside of “our” appreciation. All that gets you is an EFM and a few noise bands.
You might want to read what I wrote again, Emma. I said I “don’t” doubt it. My point was that a lot of business people are willing to look the other way when money is involved. If the individual you mention was doing good work, and Eller was making a profit off of him, I don’t doubt for a moment that he was able to put aside his feelings. It’s been my experience that cash trumps hate every time.
Dan, its insane to you because you’re a profligate wretch who only sees the world in materialistic terms. Hopefully your important research can survive while you play on the internet all day on tax payers dime. There is a difference between check cashing places whose sole occupation is to pray on misery of impovrished people and the legitimate force of law to collect legal debts, but it would be pointless to say to you. Oh, and I for one am so glad we no longer get the dregs of A2’s disgusting fratboys polluting Washington St with their drunken violence every night at 230am, fighting each other to the gutter over some spent sorostitutes. You and your grotesque fratboy brethering can stay out of Ypsilanti, you uppity objectivist dreck aren’t welcome.
Dan, I was actually enjoying some of your posts there for a while but now you’re just being an asshole and a troll by ripping on our city and its establishments. Get a life, dude.
Dan, I’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but it’s hard to read things like this, and not think you’re a douche.
“But the thing you dont realize is that, there are 50 of me, to everyone 1 of you. So called mainstream people drive the world. You cant survive in your little isolated community. You want Ypsi to be outside of “our” appreciation. All that gets you is an EFM and a few noise bands.”
Thom,
A few things:
#1) you’re a fuckin debt collector for Wall Street Banks. I hope everyone realizes this
#2) I am 95% funded via NON tax payer money. I occasionally have a federal project to work on, but it’s not common. I am predominantly funded via the private sector. So have fun with your nonsense about that
#3) You’re a fuckin debt collector for Wall Street Banks. I hope everyone realizes this
#4) your mom pays your rent, car payments, insurance, etc. And you’re what, 35 years old? You’re going to talk shit about someone else under those circumstances?
Knox, and Pocket Beaver,
Appreciate the (albeit limited) support. but know that I’ve dealt with Thom for months, and he’s the biggest fraud you’ve ever met. Works a debt collector for walls treet banks, but continue to rants bout the evils of wall street. yea, great guy.
As for “trolling.” I’ can see how it comes off that way, but the overwhelmingly consistent political stance here probably makes me look worse than I am. I’ve stated repeatedly that I’m extremely liberal on personal issues. The only conservative issues I agree with are that when an entity is completely maxed out on tax rates, there has to be a better answer.
Where will Eller and Pierce be celebrating tonight? I know Pierce used to have his big victory parties at his friend Dave Curtis’s place, but Dave got run out of town a few years back when he stopped paying his vendors.
Come to think of it, does Steve have any friends who aren’t terrible human beings?
“But the thing you dont realize is that, there are 50 of me, to everyone 1 of you. So called mainstream people drive the world. You cant survive in your little isolated community. You want Ypsi to be outside of “our” appreciation. All that gets you is an EFM and a few noise bands.”
i love when you write this shit. i don’t know why anyone needed this to know you’re an asshole though.
There are college kids at the Wurst, as well as plenty of people in the demographic you most admire. True, it doesn’t smell like piss like Pub 13, and it actually has quality food, but i’d suggest you try it out. If you see someone who looks cooler than you, don’t be afraid to go in. Not everyone who’s cooler than you is a hipster. In fact, there are 50 cool people for every one of you.
Thanks to the generosity of Bill and Sandee French, Eller and Pierce will be at Aubree’s tonight. Please stop in and have a drink with us. And please wear red, white, and blue!
” there are 50 cool people for every one of you”
in your estimate, sure. But thats my point. There are many many many more people that dont agree with you on that. I know it feeds your ego, but the vast majority of people dont think you’re cool, in fact they are absurdly annoyed by you.
But the thing you guys fail to realize is that THEY pay the bills. They populate stores on Washtenaw and Michigan and Cross. Those people you dont agree with are the ones paying taxes in Ypsi. They dont shop at the CoOp. They drive to Pittsfiled or the Twp for groceries, because they are cheaper and they worry about their family budget, not pestcides. The Maynardians are a small part of the community.
dan, you’re so defensive and threatened. these straw people with whom you’re obsessed is what’s absurdly annoying. you don’t know anything about me or anything about most people in ypsi it seems. maybe you should befriend the eller crowd?
never been to the Wurst right? don’t know who’s there. don’t know if you’re full of shit etc.
oh yes, the eternal dichotomy: family budgets versus pesticides. you’re such a lame ass cultural warrior.
kjc,
Whats a pint of PBR cost a the Wurst Bar. Just asking
Ypsilanti is electing Tea Party republicans and you people are fighting about hipsters.
yeah because of fighting about hipsters now, i won’t be able to vote against the Tea Party types later. is this the false dichotomy thread?
$2 cans all the time, $5 pitchers at certain times? i’m not sure cuz i don’t drink that shit (hipsters be damned).
I actually like Dan. He and I don’t agree on pensions at all–or many other things–but I think he does raise some good points. I may wrangle him to help me with my poor little 403b which has not grown 11% in…ever. :)
I’m not sure though about Ypsi not attracting Ann Arbor people. Is there even any way to measure that, other than informal surveys? Me, I go to the Corner (at least weekly, say hi if you see me) and recently discovered the Wurst Bar. Word out mouth seems to say that people from all over really like Red Rock, Wurst Bar, Beezy’s, Cafe Ollie (ok, *I* really like these places and so maybe I just keep an ear out for mention of them?). Will small, funktastic places “save” Ypsi or any city? I gotta say that I don’t think so. Hate on me if you must but until wages stabilize and/or people start understanding that they have to spend more than $5 to have a meal, I’m afraid that the low cost stores and chain restaurants are going to get more business. When I worked in the D, my very awesome but very low paid parapro put it to me like this–“Ms. Smith (because he called me Ms. Smith instead of Patti), if I got $7 from now until payday and I can choose between some organic salad or a meal at Denny’s, I’m going to Denny’s.” (Actually, I don’t think he said Denny’s, but I can’t remember what restaurant he used).
But perhaps I am wrong! Tell me I’m wrong (please)! I would love for indy biz to be the thing that saves us all.
Oh, btw, the Wurst Bar has $2 craft beer nights on Fridays. And Bingo on Tuesday!! Let’s have MM.com BINGO NIGHT!
so it’s indie businesses, who are tasked to “save” ypsi, versus denny’s.
this IS the false dichotomy thread.
kjc,
thats the thing that drives me nuts. you dont expect the indie places the “save ypsi” but you expect everyone else to to save the indy places. That makes no sense.
I know everyone hates to hear about economics, but its a real force. You cant just say we want organic only and expect that to be the only food available. You cant just say you want only solar powered plants. you have to incorporate feasibility and economics.
BTW, I appreciate TeacherPatti not taking the easy way out and scarlet lettering me ;)
I can hold my nose and vote for Debbie Stabenow at the same time!
“thats the thing that drives me nuts. you dont expect the indie places the “save ypsi” but you expect everyone else to to save the indy places. That makes no sense.”
i don’t expect either one. is that another tenet of the straw people?
scarlet letter. poor Dan.
Pete WON!!!