Ypsilanti Immigration Interview: Lindsay Garinger

    I believe I first met Lindsay Garinger a few days after Arlo was born, at an Occupy Ypsi teach-in. She was pregnant, and, if I’m not mistaken, she was knitting. I’d seen her around before, and always assumed that she was a local. That, apparently, wasn’t the case, though… Here, with the whole story, is Lindsay, who was kind enough to agree to be interviewed for our Ypsi Immigration Project….

    MARK: Where had you been living? And why did you decide to move to Ypsi now? Was it the higher taxes that attracted you?

    LINDSAY: I have lots of Ypsi pride. I’m ashamed to admit it, but I’ve been living in Ann Arbor, at the University Townhouses, since August 2011. I moved back to The Mitten from Columbus, Ohio. My best friend of almost 12 years offered to share her space with me, so I could grow some babies, and we could support each other. Things have changed with both of our lives since I gave birth, though, and I was invited to rent a two-bedroom basement apartment at the Yoder homestead in Ypsilanti. It was an opportunity that I couldn’t pass up! Their space is similar to the homestead that I had been building in Ohio. More importantly, it will be the first time for my five year old son and me to have our own space since I separated from his dad. I’ve been going through this life transition since January 2011, and I’m ready to settle! My life is a happy mess!

    MARK: There’s no shame in having lived in Ann Arbor. It happens to the best of us. The important thing is that you left when an opportunity presented itself… Seriously, though… There’s a lot to like about Ann Arbor. What, in your opinion, is the very best thing about Ann Arbor?

    LINDSAY: The transportation system and the absence of Wal-Mart.

    MARK: By that same logic, is the best thing about Ypsi the absence of black plague and robots that feed on human eyeballs?

    LINDSAY: Where are those robots?! Really, Ann Arbor is great in much the same way that Ypsi is, but it just feels too big and too corporate for me. I love the small town local pride vibe in Ypsi.

    MARK: I’m not familiar with the Yoder Homestead. Is it a survivalist enclave? Are the stockpiles of weapons?

    LINDSAY: They’re steps ahead of most of us when it comes to surviving The Apocalypse. Grace and Jeff are armed with two amazing little humans, two dogs, lots of chickens, lots of raised vegetable beds, a root cellar filled with preserved food, a greenhouse, etc. The weapons are of life, and this is the foundation of Polliwog Farm… They still need to purchase a gun.

    MARK: So, are the Yoder Homestead and Plliwog Farm one in the same?

    LINDSAY: Yes. The homestead is the family, and the farm is the business. They are very full folks!

    MARK: What brought you to Michigan in the first place?

    LINDSAY: I first came to Michigan in 2000 to study at EMU. I took a year off school in 2003 and lived with my folks back in C-Bus. In 2004, I moved back to Michigan to finish school. Then, I left again in 2006, to live with my boyfriend. We separated, but we have five year old son. Now, I’m back to stay (hopefully) for longer than three years.

    MARK: You mention that you lived with your friend in Ann Arbor these last several months, while you were incubating babies. It’s OK if you don’t want to, but, since you brought up the pregnancy, do you want to mention how all of that went down? I don’t mean to pry, but I think it’s interesting, and I think that others might benefit from hearing about your decision.

    LINDSAY: My first reaction to a positive pregnancy test was shock, since I had taken the morning after pill. It was not an option for me to keep the babies. I knew that I did not want more children. The biological father did not want children either. After a series of events to try to induce miscarriage, including being denied at my first abortion appointment, I started to think of adoption. The seed was planted by my housemates – a lesbian couple. I started to ponder the idea, and the stars were all aligned. Another friend knew of a couple, and, after some hesitation, we were introduced. We met at the park on Prospect and hit it off really well. I had another abortion appointment a week after that visit. That was a really hard week to live through, as I looked for signs to tell me what I should do. My sister and I talked, and she mentioned that perhaps the signs had already shown to me. Once I chose to go down that road, I was committed. I knew what I would have wanted from the situation to begin with, which helped make it so successful. I didn’t enter it knowing how it would look or work out, but I knew what I wanted. The couple were flexible, and so respectful, and I was sure to not take more than they offered. I got to have an empowering home birth experience, and they got a family. Everyone involved received the gift of being part of the story.

    MARK: Again, it’s not a questions that you have to answer, but I heard that you shared your story on the Oxgyn Network. What was that like?

    LINDSAY: It was completely bizarre to me. I don’t consider myself an artist, and yet there I was, giving my creation story away to the biggest industry. I felt like it compromised my beliefs, but I think it shows that I’m willing to be intimate and vulnerable on an interpersonal level, just not in a traditionally public way… so, I had to have someone tell the story for me with their big cameras. Reality TV is staged, but the questions I had to answer for the interviews were genuine to some degree. I felt slightly coerced a couple of times, but I was firm about not saying anything that I didn’t actually feel. There was one day of filming me going about my daily routine, and then three different interview sessions. I also had to provide diary videos, which were the absolute weirdest things… sitting in front of a computer and talking to it, while looking at yourself. I hope it is okay for me to tell this much. The contract is scary… I appreciate how amazing the producers were with me given how difficult I must have been with all my questioning and hesitation.

    MARK: If someone had just one day to spend it Ypsi, and they had no money whatsoever, what would you suggest that they do?

    LINDSAY: Go to the Pleasuredome, find Thom Elliot, and ask him to show you how to have a good time. That guy rules! And he is super nice too… I find myself walking through the graveyard, or near the river a lot too. Oh, and I would suggest going to the Historical Museum on Huron and looking through the file cabinets to research all the old homes. I don’t know if you still can, but I did that once, years ago, and there are files for each registered house, with information about the families that lived in them, and sometimes pictures too. Also, the museum itself is packed with lots of artifacts. Depending on the season, you could forage for edibles, then trade them for some beer from someone sitting on their front porch. Ypsilanti is so friendly you won’t go wrong just hanging around chatting with whomever you run into. Lots of good stories to be shared!

    MARK: There must be two Thom Elliots in town. The one that I know isn’t a “good time” kind of guy. He just wants to talk about obscure, long-dead philosophers.

    LINDSAY: He loves to pick up trash around Depot Town, and, if you’re nice enough, he would probably get you food while you let him diagnose you! I have a lot of respect for that guy. He’s one of the first people I met in this town, at Vinyl Joe’s. His honesty is humbling!

    MARK: Now, let’s say you met someone with a million dollars, who, for some reason, had to invest it all in Ypsilanti. How would you suggest that this person spend it?

    LINDSAY: You shouldn’t let me ever be in charge of money unless you want to lose it.

    MARK: Yeah, but this person has to spend it, right? What would you tell her to do with it? Should she give it to the Dreamland Theater so that they can build puppet museum? Should she set up a scholarship program so that Ypsi kids can attend college for free? Should she buy Water Street and turn it into an edible forest? Or, should she just buy everyone in town roller skates and have a huge roller disco party?

    LINDSAY: So you may have mind fucked me with this question. Essentially you are asking me to realize my passions again, while I am at an all time low figuring them out. Sigh. Thank You. First I’d suggest giving some to the community of folks that I respect for their contributions to this great little town (that should be its own country), like Natalie and Kristen with Bike Ypsi or the Ypsilanti Co-op, the Growing Hope Community, Little Lake Learning Community, Trillium Midwifery, Dreamland Theater, Patrick Elkins Shadow Puppetry, James Mann of The Ypsilanti Historical Society, The Ypsilanti Farmers Market and Food Pantries, SOS Community Services, Ozone House Drop In, and surely many more organizations! I’d love to see market stands built all around the city sidewalks. No organization to run them. I’d just have them there as an open invitation for folks to bring whatever they want to sell, or trade, or share. I heard from a friend about a street artist in New Orleans that just sat with her typewriter, available to type up anyone’s story for them. I know it is naive and idealistic, but, if I could dream big and keep it local, I would love to see our town have more street artists. I think Ypsi is a place where people want to, and do, support the small businesses. I don’t want to think about the logistics just yet, and I don’t know how business is for this town, but I support them with my wallet. I’d also like to build a roller skating rink and a one screen movie theater like this place in Columbus, OH, and start a bike co-op and pedi-cabbing business. I think I am taking you TOO SERIOUSLY!! HA!

    MARK: What’s the weirdest thing ever to happen to you in Ypsilanti?

    LINDSAY: I’ve pondered this question, and, each story that I think of, I realize that I was the weird one.

    MARK: OK, so what’s the weirdest thing you’ve done in Ypsilanti?

    LINDSAY: So I had my first apartment on Adams St, living in the basement with my dear friend, Leggz. The other half of the apartment was home to this guy Roy who was an Ypsi drunk. He had this lady friend, Judy, who was also an Ypsi drunk. The Ypsi drunks are really awesome folks. I was friendly with them, as I am with most people… and what happened next is a story I am used to repeating. I had bad boundaries with these two, plus I was in school for women studies stuff, and quite the avenger for protecting all women. So, she came to me frantic one day, and said Roy was going to kill her. I don’t know if it would be possible, though, as the guy was always shaking, slurring and so sloppy. Apparently he was doing some drugs, and she said something about it to him. She cared about him! So, in a matter of minutes, I had all of her stuff moved into my place while he was gone to the store. Piles and piles of clothes and boxes of stuff that she never unpacked. Next, we camped out and just waited. Waited for him to come and try to kill her. I was all for protecting this lady, but I was nervous I might get taken out too, for being in the way. He eventually came, and was yelling for her to come out. All I remember next is moving her into some other man’s house far away. Sorry if that was anti-climatic. Most of my stories are… I also helped care for a prairie dog pet while its owner was on vacation. And, I’m doing this interview, which is especially weird! And, meeting Patrick Elkins, who has brought so much weird joy to my life. Define weird!

    MARK: What do you do for work? You don’t have to tell us where you work, specifically, but I’m curious as to what you do.

    LINDSAY: I am working for a small cleaning business based out of YPSI, run by my friend, Nature Maid – WON’T BREAK IT OR TAKE IT! I may have made up that motto, but I would like to shamelessly promote it now. Check out the website. I really love my job. It’s like, as my friend Grace explains, “chop wood, carry water”… good hard work that satisfies and sustains me.

    MARK: What, if anything, do you miss about Columbus?

    LINDSAY: I’m not far enough from Ohio to miss anything. Specifically, in Columbus, I do miss certain folks, friends, food places and my dad.

    MARK: When you say that you’re not far enough away, do you mean in a geographic sense, or an emotional sense?

    LINDSAY: Geographic!

    MARK: What should people know about Ben Miller?

    LINDSAY: Ben Miller is a think tank of love. The kind of love that embraces and accepts and requires you to be respectful. He LOVES the library and YPSI LIVING! He has so many passions, and really great ideas, and he is living his dream. He could tell you more about himself so ask him out on a date!

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      36 Comments

      1. Edward
        Posted May 9, 2012 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

        Welcome back.

      2. Posted May 9, 2012 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

        Welcome! And thanks for sharing your stories. Amazing!

      3. Eel
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 5:54 am | Permalink

        Before this turns into a thread about abortion and adoption, I’d like to ask a few questions. Do prairie dogs make good pets? Are they legal? Don’t they need to be able to dig holes to be happy?

      4. Eel
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 5:57 am | Permalink

        And thank you, Edward, for getting this stuck in my head. I’ll be suffering with it all day.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVS3WNt7yRU

      5. anonymous
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 6:34 am | Permalink

        It had never occurred to me before, but Patrick Elkins, Ben Miller and Thom Elliott would make a delightful Ypsi Welcome Wagon. I can imagine them showing up on people’s doorsteps with a pancake griddle and a boom box blasting the work of local noise musicians, telling people about the library and the various houses where music can be seen for free.

      6. Watching Laughing.
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 7:21 am | Permalink

        Where in Columbus are you from?

        WL.

      7. Knox
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 8:07 am | Permalink

        I have no clue how this discussion is going to go. Are pro-life people going to attack her for taking a morning after pill, and going for an abortion, or are they going to praise her for having the children and giving them up for adoption? Are people going to argue that this is evidence as to why waiting periods should be mandatory for abortion? (These are the same people, by and large, who think that waiting periods shouldn’t be required for guns, by the way.) This will be interesting. (When do right wing trolls wake up, anyway?)

      8. mark k
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 9:17 am | Permalink

        Right on knox, just wait for THOSE people who are different from Us to show up. We’ll give then hell. Hell they probly have a different color skin too! When is mark going to lock this blog down so we don’t have to deal with stuff like that.

      9. Dan
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 10:12 am | Permalink

        since everyone is slyly trying to steer this towards abortions, and then planning to blame a “troll” for “going there”, I’ll take the bait.

        I have no problem with abortions. But I do have some problems with so called self induce miscarriages. I assume that is what she was referring to, but it’s not clear. I also am not an advocate of illegal adoptions

      10. EOS
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 11:52 am | Permalink

        We should get to the bottom of this mystery. Lindsay, Does your Thom Elliot eat meat?

      11. Anonymous Mike
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

        You’re kind of a dope, Dan. First, when she says that she attempted to bring about a miscarriage, I believe that she was referring to the morning after pill. You may disagree with it, but it’s legal, and nothing to be ashamed of. Second, I doubt seriously that the adoption was “illegal”, as you suggest here, given the fact that it’s going to be featured on network television. Private adoption takes place all the time.

      12. Dan
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

        thanks for the personal insults. I was basing my posts on her quotes not on your speculations. She said:

        “After a series of events to try to induce miscarriage, including being denied at my first abortion appointment”

        And like i said, it wasnt clear what she meant by that, but do a quick google search of “induce miscarriage” and see if you are ok with those procedures?

        BTW, I have not problem with the morning after pill. I’d have no problem with my wife taking one. She would, im sure though.

        And as for the adoption, I went again based on her quotes. She met a couple in Prospect Park, had a home birth, and “was sure to not take more than they offered”

        That certainly sounds like an illegal independent adoption to me. Private adoptions are required to enlist and agency. Independent adoptions are require to enlist an attorney. Maybe she did those things, but they were not in her post.

        but please, continue the personal attacks.

      13. mark k
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

        Anonymous Mike the ball is in your court. May I suggest you call him a racist. Or say something about how he believes in God. Either one of these should work. Oh yeah I forgot the new one, use this. “You just want a war on women”

      14. Alice
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

        Just because she said she first met the couple in the park does not mean that she was standing in the park, selling babies, like a drug dealer. They arranged to meet there because it was a nice, neutral place to meet. Parks can be beautiful, happy places. You should visit one.

        This is a great immigration story. Thank you for sharing it, Lindsay.

      15. Dan
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

        I didnt say “she was standing in the park, selling babies, like a drug dealer. ”

        But if she didnt enlist a lawyer or a private adoption agency, and took money beyond what was needed to pay for the pregnancy, then it is an illegal adoption.

        Again, I’m not saying she didnt do those things, but to me it sounded like an illegal adoption, based on how it was portrayed in the interview.

      16. Lindsay
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

        The adoption was legal. The parents were registered with Adoption Associates so I went to the agency to tell them I had chosen one of their couples. I had a lot of support during the pregnancy. When I say I was sure not to take more than offered, I basically mean I don’t like to ask for help. It was hard enough to accept that they help me with rent. They gave to me just as much as I gave to them. It is really a unique example of adoption. I consider them my friends. Everything was handled professionally through a social worker.

        I don’t care much for your opinion on the matter but I did indeed try to induce miscarriage by two methods. One was to take calcium pills every hour while having parsley inserted to my vagina. The other was drinking a cup of pennyroyal & blue cohosh tea every four hours. I was denied for the abortion because I refused to have a shot of rhogam (do the research i hate explaining this) and the doctor didn’t think a waiver would protect him from a future lawsuit. Ironic that I could choose to have an abortion but NOT choose to deny a shot to protect my “future” pregnancies.

        This whole experience has me questioning a lot of things in my life and beliefs. I stand now and stood then firmly believing that I have a choice. I question if we even have choices now but still advocate that humans want to feel in control of their bodies and need choices. I don’t want to argue when life is life or religious bullshit. I don’t have shame for what I tried to do and I am glad I was able to embrace that those babies wanted to stay. That is how I chose to perceive it and proceed. They have determination and really great genes. I grew them to 40 weeks with no complications during my pregnancy or birth. I only wish some of my emotional connections to others around me weren’t so disconnected by my choice. But you can’t keep em all happy and I am so grateful for the parents to love and cherish those amazing babies!

        I am from the west side hilltop area of Columbus.

      17. Watching Laughing.
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

        Thank you for your relpy,,,

        WL.

      18. Watching Laughing.
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

        reply,,,

      19. Dan
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

        not to be a dick, but if you accepted money for rent, then it is indeed an illegal adoption. You are only allowed to accept direct money to cover health care costs and legal fees associated with the adoption.

        but whatever. My issue was more about my reading of your original interview. It sounded much “less legal” if that makes sense. I’m glad everything worked out.

        I just hope you have the legal documents and the bio- fathers approval.

      20. Dan
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

        and you may not care about my opinion, but using poisons such as pennyroyal & blue cohosh is not only mindbogglingly reckless, but practically insane. There’s a very good chance you’ve damage yours and the babies organs.

        again, not that you care, but I want to point out how awful of an idea that is for any readers out there.

        self induced miscarriages are completely crazy.

      21. lindsay
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

        Dan I hope you cant sleep at night worrying so much about my choices. You must be a saint. Thank you.

      22. Posted May 10, 2012 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

        Lindsay, I’m sorry that you’ve had to respond to these comments. I can assure you, however, Dan doesn’t speak for the entire readership of this site. I suspect that most folks, like me, appreciate your honesty and respect the hell out of you for being able to bring these two children into the world and then put them into the hands of a loving family. These are things that most folks don’t talk about, and I, for one, appreciate your coming forward to tell your story… And, what’s more, I like having you in Ypsi.

      23. Dan
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

        Mark,

        I certainly appreciate her honesty. It was compelling and interesting, to say the least.

        But god forbid someone point out how ridiculous it is to poison yourself to induce a miscarriage. I mean, why not just promote women to dump Clorox in their vaginas?

        Those are reckless practices, and sorry if you and others dont like to be told that, but it’s the truth. Poisoning oneself is by definition insane.

      24. Mr. Y
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

        Dan, when abortion becomes illegal again, will you also berate women for ruining hangers?

        I understand the concern about prompting miscarriage. I do. It’s not healthy. And you’re right to caution people against it. Your tone, however, was not that of a man with empathy. Furthermore, I think you missed the point. The reason she resorted to those extreme measures is that, when she went for an abortion, she was denied service due the fact that she didn’t want to receive a post-abortion shot of rhogam. I’m not a scientist, but that, to my untrained ear, sounds worse that parsley in the vagina.

      25. Dan
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

        wrong Mr. Y,

        rhogam is a medically tested and accepted treatment. And it’s main drawbacks are for future pregnancies. She said she had no interest in having more kids. so why deny it and then resort to poisoning?

        It’s like someone declining a penicillin shot because they’d rather try their luck with a witch doctor. It’s reckless, as i said, not only to her, but to her babies.

        and as for your first point, it’s nonsense. She had perfectly legit methods to get an abortion available to her. She had perfectly legit methods to go through adoption. She chose instead to poison herself and her baby.

        Sorry if I dont see the noble cause in that. i guess I’m just a bad guy.

      26. Lindsay
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 10:51 pm | Permalink

        Thanks, Mark. I can handle it though, not much can break me down.

        Dan – I don’t deny they are reckless choices. So what will you do to help women feel empowered to make healthy choices when faced with an unexpected pregnancy? There is so much shame around the topic of abortion. I hope to eliminate that shame with my honesty. My situation is a positive one and I certainly made it that way. I considered my capabilities and knew I could handle giving away the babies that stayed. Not everyone can imagine doing that and I think in my situation it worked out so well because I have so much respect for the parents. I struggle with the emotions of not being a strong enough woman or what the twins will think of me when they’re grown. But I have learned a huge lesson about emotions from this. That is they ARE MINE. The joy and pain I feel simultaneously from my choice is one that is enlightening to me about this life and reality. I don’t have to feel like a terrible person or a wonderful person depending on perspective. I just did what I WANTED to do and embraced it. Then shared this story honestly. I get to live with the guilt that I may be resented by the twins for trying to purge them. Not You. I also get to live with the pleasure of knowing they are safe and loved after I cared for them in my body for 9 months. Not You. I am sure you are poisoning yourself every day too just with a different toxin and dosage and I have no desire to take that away from you or shame you for it. What I did hurt me, not you.

        i’d like to also correct the timeline. I tried to induce miscarriage BEFORE the first abortion appointment because it was more affordable and I had more control. Rhogam is to protect future pregnancies of a negative blood type woman. I saw no reason why I needed to have the shot but the doctor refused to do the procedure unless I agreed to have it. It also cost $50 more and I couldn’t even afford the abortion as a low income newly single mom. I am a health nut of sorts not even resorting to Ibuprofen for a headache so having a human blood product shot that didn’t serve to protect me was pointless IMO. i wasn’t trusted with a choice. I had another abortion appointment because I found a doctor that would work with my request. My health practices are my choice. I go with my instinct and naturopathic holistic health. I am super healthy so I must be doing something correct unless you believe in luck. I birthed two babies in two hours in a bedroom with an amazing team. I trust myself. I try to be mindful.

      27. Dan
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 11:03 pm | Permalink

        I apologize for coming off crass and if I was rude, sorry again. I did not mean to be.

        I know your decisions were extremely hard and emotional. My family has been through similar issues. I just really REALLY think people shouldn’t consider home remedies and poisons for thing that are readily available at hospitals etc.

        I’ve seen people do the home abortion thing and its nauseting to me. Sorry if I offended you

      28. dragon
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

        From the rude pundit:

        6/04/2009
        Why Ann Coulter Is a Cunt, Part 20,122 (Murder Advocacy Edition):
        Here’s how the Rude Pundit pictures evenings at Ann Coulter’s home: Coulter, wearing only a spiked dog collar and a leather bustier with swastikas on the nipples, watches Tivo’d interviews of herself on Fox “news,” the only place that’ll have her anymore, photo of Joe McCarthy gazing at her from the mantle, a dildo made of her father’s femur next to it, her laptop on the glass coffee table in front of her on a bookmarked Amazon page of her latest “book,” the better to keep hitting “refresh” so she can manically see the rise and fall of her rankings, sucking down straight scotch from a tumbler, snorting coke off a copy of Godless. She’s rubbing her pussy with a riding crop until she’s gotten herself good and soppy, and that just sets something off, triggers some impulse in her brain, and she fuckin’ loses it. She turns up the volume all the way and she wails like a banshee in the fog at the ceilling. She slams her glass against the table, shattering the top, she grabs one of the larger shards, and she goes to work on her thighs. Fuck, yeah, over just-scarred-over previous wounds, she cuts with one hand and fucks herself with the handle of the riding crop, sometimes taking it out to slap her ass, eventually shoving it in her asshole until she comes and shits and bleeds all over her leather sofa, yelping and barking the entire time, and then laying there in her shit and blood, she grabs the scotch and pours it over her legs, the burn giving her one more sphincter-puckering orgasm. And then she picks up her laptop, brushes the splinters and pieces off it, and gets to work writing.

        For in her latest “column” (if by “column,” you mean, “see the above”), Coulter doesn’t “imply” that doctors who do abortions should. She pretty much says they should be: “If you don’t believe in shooting abortionists, then don’t shoot one.” See? Isn’t Coulter’s cuntistry clever? She’s turning around a pro-choice motto to say that shooting abortion providers should be legal and safe.

        As ever, it’s useless to argue with Coulter, who in most of the column repeats everything we’ve heard before, about how recently murdered Dr. George Tiller contributed money to Democrats (which apparently is wrong to Coulter, although we wouldn’t want any rules on campaign funding, would we?), and speaks of Tiller as running an “abattoir” to murder babies. For how do you argue with someone who makes this logical leap:

        “For years, we’ve had to hear about the grave threat that Americans might overreact to a terrorist attack committed by 19 Muslims shouting ‘Allahu akbar’ as they flew commercial jets into American skyscrapers. That would be the equivalent of 19 pro-lifers shouting ‘Abortion kills a beating heart!’ as they gunned down thousands of innocent citizens in Wichita, Kan.”

        The levels of the piquant mixture of hate and crazy there are off the chart.

        And correcting Coulter is like correcting a cat. Cat don’t care, man, cat don’t care, and cat owners just think that’s endearing, like Coulter’s readers. So when Coulter says of Tiller’s church (where he was, you know, shot), “The official Web page of the ELCA instructs: ‘A developing life in the womb does not have an absolute right to be born,’” you can try. You can say, “Well, actually, the context of the quote is a discussion of rights, and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America website makes this morally complex statement:

        “The language used in discussing abortion should ignore neither the value of unborn life nor the value of the woman and her other relationships. It should neither obscure the moral seriousness of the decision faced by the woman nor hide the moral value of the newly conceived life. Nor is it helpful to use the language of ‘rights’ in absolute ways that imply that no other significant moral claims intrude. A developing life in the womb does not have an absolute right to be born, nor does a pregnant woman have an absolute right to terminate a pregnancy. The concern for both the life of the woman and the developing life in her womb expresses a common commitment to life. This requires that we move beyond the usual ‘pro-life’ versus ‘pro-choice’ language in discussing abortion.”

        (The whole page is actually a pretty amazing discussion of abortion within a fairly conservative Christian church.)

        No, no, all of this is rather useless, other than to say that at some point, someone is responsible for Scott Roeder’s act beyond the simple savagery of an individual. Hell, if not O’Reilly, why not Coulter? Especially when she says, “As long as we’re deciding who does and doesn’t have an ‘absolute right to be born,’ who’s to say late-term abortionists have an ‘absolute right’ to live?”

        Let’s end this with a letter from rude reader JC, who is from Wichita, Kansas:
        “For some few years I volunteered as an escort at Dr. Tiller’s and several other clinics. I didn’t know the good doctor well, but met with him on several occasions and was impressed with his kindness and the care he obviously felt for the women who needed his services.

        “Of course I have been heartbroken by his assassination, but I’m not so full of hate towards his killer. I’ve seen too many of his kind on the lines; in fact I remember seeing him. We knew Mr. Roeder as ‘Prom Queen’ from the flowers he usually carried there, and the screaming fits he would throw when approached by escorts. He was one of many not-too-bright mentally ill recruited by various self-appointed fundie leaders who groomed them to scream the threats they themselves were so careful not to utter aloud.

        “I’m pretty sure that he has been exploited again to shoot Dr. Tiller. I don’t know who is using him this time- when I saw him, he was in Troy Newman’s stable of nuts, but the fundie leaders are an incestuous bunch who tend to swap followers as needed.

        “According to papers Roeder filed today, his possessions amount to a 16yr.-old Taurus and $10, and he only works occasionally at minimum-wage jobs. Yet he managed to finance several 400-mile round trips to Wichita from the KC area in the last month to case the church and know Dr. Tiller by sight, bought a handgun, gas and meals etc. Also, he asked- begged- for bail to be set today, despite his total lack of assets. Obviously, the poor bastard expects someone to post it, all of which leads me to believe that he is not the solitary nutcase the fundies claim he is.

        “Somebody had to put him up to it, help him plan it and pay his expenses, and will now feed him to the sharks. Hopefully, and maybe with a bit of psych help, he will realize how he was used and name names.”

      29. EOS
        Posted May 11, 2012 at 5:32 am | Permalink

        It’s great that you put your babies up for adoption. It’s tragic that you first tried to poison them (in the first trimester?) and I pray that you didn’t permanently damage their developing organs and nervous systems. Exercising personal choice over your body doesn’t include taking the lives of others.

        “So what will you do to help women feel empowered to make healthy choices when faced with an unexpected pregnancy?” I’ll support government WIC programs with my tax dollars. I’ll contribute to pregnancy help centers so that they can provide essential medical care, baby items and counseling for new mothers. I’ll hold baby showers for these children and donate the gifts. I’ll continue to be an available resource for unwed mothers who might need food, money, encouragement, or shelter during difficult times. I’ll babysit their children as they return to school in the evenings to get a diploma or GED. I’ll march in Washington and I’ll counsel women about their available options even as they are walking into an abortion clinic. And I’ll support all efforts to make abortion illegal again and to foster a culture in our country that respects life from conception till the grave. I’ll be available to pray with women who are racked with guilt and depression because of their past abortions and I’ll remind them that there is forgiveness available when one truly repents. And I’ll pray that God will forgive us as a nation for supporting this abominable practice.

      30. Thom Elliott
        Posted May 11, 2012 at 5:38 am | Permalink

        Love you Lindsey, glad to have you back in my life. A fascinating interview Mark.

      31. Thom Elliott
        Posted May 11, 2012 at 5:40 am | Permalink

        And no EOS, I do not consume the flesh of murdered animals. Thanks.

      32. Edward
        Posted May 11, 2012 at 5:57 am | Permalink

        If you really feel strongly about self-induced miscarriage, then get out there and become an advocate for abortion rights. Work to make sure that abortion is safe and affordable to everyone. Otherwise, do us all a favor and stop with the moralizing.

        And I’m still confused. Is there a happy, meat-eating Thom Elliott out there somewhere, bringing joy into the lives of Ypsilantians?

      33. EOS
        Posted May 11, 2012 at 6:58 am | Permalink

        “They gave to me just as much as I gave to them.”

        Unless you traded babies, there’s no way possible that they could have given you as much as you gave them.

      34. Ben
        Posted May 11, 2012 at 7:22 am | Permalink

        Lindsay, you are SOOOOO Lindsay! Everything you say here in the comments feels so reasoned and calm yet with nuturing and helpful passion! I love this interview and think it is so nice what you said about me! :) I’m so glad Mark came to your defense but I’m so unsurprised that you said you could handle it. You can basically handle ANYTHING Linday and I love you for that! :D You’re a hero, I love you, and I’m so glad you are back in Ypsi. We love you so much! :D <3 Let's hang out soon, I need to give you another hug! :D

      35. Paige
        Posted May 12, 2012 at 1:23 am | Permalink

        Love you Lindsay and am so glad that you moved back! [Screw] the haters; they’re gonna hate! Glad to know that you’re too strong to need the validation of a pack of [uninformed jerks!]
        I love Mark Maynard and Markmaynard.com, but I find more and more that I’m always terribly disappointed in the crew of commenters…

        Edited this post three times to keep it PG, hope it’s okay…

      36. Stephanie
        Posted August 28, 2012 at 11:05 am | Permalink

        In Michigan and a lot of states, the adoptive parents can legally pay for living expenses such as rent, food, utilities, etc. The expenses have to be reasonable and approved by the court.

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