Old men rant about “the problem with kids today” at the Shadow Art Fair

Among the musical acts to perform at yesterday’s Shadow Art Fair was band called Druid Perfume. I know Brewery management wasn’t too happy about the volume, but I found them to be a nice change of pace from the other, decidedly quieter, bands on the bill. (All the bands that I saw were great, by the way, and I think Ian Fulcher is to be commended for putting together another inspired, eclectic lineup that ran the gamut from country to punk and back again.) At any rate, I thought that I’d pass along the following video that I shot of Druid Perfume performing last night before an enthusiastic crowd.

And, with that by way of background, I’d now like to share an interview that I conducted with my friend Andy Claydon shortly after we both watched Druid Perfume perform, on the subject of “what’s wrong with kids today.” I’d encourage you to check it out, as I think a lot of really interesting points are made on the apparent complacency of the younger generation. Hopefully it generates a healthy debate in the comments section.

And, here, for those of you who are unable to make sense of moving images, is an abbreviated transcript:

MARK: We just watched a band called Druid Perfume, and it struck me that I haven’t seen that kind of energy in a long time. And, as you’d mentioned to me, they’re older guys, who had been around for a while… I guess my question is this. Why don’t kids invest the same amount of energy that we used to invest (when we were in bands)?

ANDY: I don’t know the answer to that. That is so awkward. I don’t want to feel old and say, “kids today just don’t have what we had”…

MARK: But it’s true, though, right?

ANDY: It was the 90’s. We had nothing to care about. It was good times. There were jobs. And yet the energy was just over the top.

MARK: But, now, they should be angry. There’s really something to be angry about.

ANDY: They don’t. They don’t. Now they should be angry and they just don’t care. They just noodle and stand there. I detest the bands of today. They have now raw power. And, unfortunately, it’s why I’ve turned to metal these days… I don’t know why (people in bands) don’t get upset. They’re not going to find jobs… I don’t know what it is. It’s what’s happening. It’s what they’re liking. There will be a re-lash. There will be a bam back.

MARK: I don’t know that it’ll happen.

ANDY: …I’m hoping that it’ll happen again soon. I’m hoping that it’ll kick into gear. Because kids rebel. And somebody’s going to rebel against the crap that’s happening now. But (kids today) are rebelling against what was happening right before. It’s always a rebellion. Billy Childish said it best – “punk rock is a crab – it crawls sideways” – it never grows, or gets bigger. Punk bands never get big. Once they get big, they’re done. It crawls sideways, like a crab…

MARK: We’re in an environment now where things suck. For young kids coming up today, I’d be pissed the fuck off. I’ve got a job – I’m alright. But, where are the angry fucking kids? Are you seeing them anywhere?

ANDY: We are the last generation that can fall into jobs like we’ve fallen into. This is it. Essentially, they’re going to be fighting over service jobs.

MARK: Do they not realize that? Why aren’t we seeing anger on their part?

ANDY: I think they’re cocky. I think they just don’t understand. I don’t think they’ve grasped it… We grew up at a time when you could work at a coffee shop and pay rent. And that was acceptable. That’s gone. You’re not going to be able to work at a coffee shop and pay rent anymore. And you’re not going to be able to fall into work like we’ve fallen into. I don’t know… (Maybe it’s) denial. Who knows?

update: I knew this post would be contentious when I posted it. I thought, however, that it would be a good thing for us to discuss… Before we go any further, though, I’d like to apologize for being somewhat less than artful in how I presented the subject. I kind of conflated a few different things that I was thinking about, and I’m afraid that, as a result, a lot of my meaning was lost.

Let’s start with what I wasn’t saying.

I wasn’t saying that Druid Perfume was political. And I wasn’t saying that music had to be loud to express anger. And, perhaps most importantly, I wasn’t saying that a band had to have a “message” to be worth a damn. Most good songs, after all, are just about the biological urge to unite moist sex organs. And I think that’s fine. What’s important, it seems to me, is that people are engaged in the creative process, and working to express their thoughts in some way.

What I was trying to express in this short video clip wasn’t so much about music as about youth culture in general. I just don’t get that kids aren’t in the streets, yelling their asses off, like they are in Egypt. Druid Perfume just provided the spark to get the conversation going.

Anyway, I just think it’s good to get people talking about his shit.

Oh, and here’s my favorite comment, left by someone on Facebook, where links to this video are being shared.

“What I think is pathetic, is old guys who landed in good jobs thinking youth should lead a rebellion. Thinking that because they (old guys) pierced or ripped something in the 90s they did their part to inspire deep, lasting cultural change.”

This, of course, is completely wrong, but I like being called a pathetic old guy.

For the record, I don’t think that I’ve done anything in my life that inspired cultural change, either lasting or fleeting. I was just wondering about why kids today don’t seem to play with the same intensity. And, what’s so bad about a guy with a job urging kids to rebel? Would you rather have a pathetic old guy urging kids to be complacent?

Anyway, I love you guys, and I welcome your criticism. In fact, I thrive on it… Now if you could just channel some of that passion into your music.

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52 Comments

  1. Kerri
    Posted July 17, 2011 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    I’ll tell you what I don’t miss about shows in the ’90s: jackasses moshing at every show to every song, whether it fit the music or not. I’ll take a more mellow show if it means I’m not going to get an elbow in the face or (true story) have a guy jump off of a tower of speakers and land on me. I got so sick of that shit. Maybe that’s the grumpy old lady in me.

    It is odd that all of the anger seems to be coming from old white teabaggers when you’re right, the youth of the world should be crazy pissed off. There’s a lot to distract them these days, though.

  2. Posted July 17, 2011 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    Yeah… Just because bands are loud doesn’t mean that they’re good. And, you’re right about a lot of dudes beings assholes in the mosh pit. Still, though, I think it’s worth exploring why kids today aren’t more pissed off. The economy now in the US is probably worse than it was in London when punk rock took off. And it’s not just the noise and the attitude, but the content of the work. Where’s the anger?

  3. Billy
    Posted July 17, 2011 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Lock out all the world’s phones for a month and watch them loose their fucking minds…They’ll be burning shit in the streets.

  4. Posted July 17, 2011 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    “I LOSE money on the stock market.”

    “I set my dog LOOSE in the yard.”

    Kids today are just really boring.

  5. Jim
    Posted July 17, 2011 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    When an old guy says, “I just think they (kids) don’t understand”. That, my friends is the very definition of boring.

  6. Timmy
    Posted July 17, 2011 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    I’d like to challenge the concept that kids somehow, by nature, rebel. I’d suggest it’s basically a recently manufactured American concept. Sure the handful of hippies rebelled and lots followed along. Of course, a lot of World War II and I (and go back) “rebelled” by enlisting and dying. (Can anyone find a chart of revolutions that shows how many were led by youth vs. middle aged men?)

    I can’t say that this is any more valid that the concept of “youth rebellion” but I think it’s as likely true that kids want to be accepted and belong to something. Sometimes the desire for meaning/belonging follows the rebel crowd, sometimes it follows the mainstream fascist crowd, sometimes the rebel fascists, sometimes the mainstream fascists.

    What I think is pathetic, is old guys who landed in good jobs thinking youth should lead a rebellion. Thinking that because they (old guys) pierced or ripped something in the 90s they did their part to inspire deep, lasting cultural change. (See my new book, out in 2012, “Tattoo Revolutions: How to do Nothing and Feel Like You Did). That somehow the youth should inspire them rather than the other way around.

    If I was a young one, and saw old punkers talk about how angry they were on the way to fall in line and punch into meaningless jobs, I’d probably figure “what’s the point.”

    Maybe they’re just smarter than us. Smart enough not to pretend.

  7. Soni
    Posted July 17, 2011 at 11:37 pm | Permalink

    This is a generalization. We do care. We are angry. We’re not sure what to do. And it is old men who built this world, this system that is failing us. What are they going to do about it? Sit back, rest on their laurels (or rather rest on the piles of money that they earn from the labor and sweat of many who will barely scrape through). And rebels? Were hippies rebels? Or just irresponsible people who later profited from the image of the times (Ben & Jerry, anybody?)
    I may sound like I’m on an insane rant here…but the fact is I’m just angry about the state of the world today and am not sure this guy even knows any young people. Also, all of the members of my band pour an incredible amount of energy into our craft…that is what we have left after we all work 40-70 hours per week just to survive paycheck to paycheck. (and yes, we know we are lucky to have jobs)

  8. Children's Crusade
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 12:46 am | Permalink

    I have seen lots of kids who can actually play the instruments they own. Honestly that is a whole, whole, whole hell of a lot more than you can say for most punkies. Maybe that is why old people don’t get it. They don’t hear the music, because their ears are tin.
    And why rebel when you are already cool? No need to pretend. Just be yourself. Did you dig that? Even though I am old, I am rebelling against the old people. Does that mean I am conforming to non-conformity? Awesome to think about just how many roads we travel in life.
    God, the world is full of the most beautiful ambiguity.
    I love young people. In a way I almost worship youth.
    Curmudgeonly old people worship youth too, but if you listen carefully you hear the envy that they have for young people. As though the young don’t really deserve the youth because they don’t know what to do with it. When the innocence is what youth is all about. And in fact that is the fun.
    Well, I basically squandered my youth through drugs and violence. So I wish the young people luck. Don’t drag them down. Lift them up.
    Timmy, I think young people do rebel naturally, but the youngest of the brood is more likely to take it seriously. They are clowns by nature. The oldest of the bunch is just more stable. Only children are just plain lost. (Hee-hee. Just kidding.)
    Of course, you are welcome to challenge that concept if you like, too.
    Isn’t the world fascinating?
    In the video, I heard mention of a lot of anger, as though that were the only emotion. But then, maybe according to one’s perspective, that is all one has left. All about the context.

  9. Children's Crusade
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 12:49 am | Permalink

    And I forgot to mention. Change is an illusion too. Just ask Obama.

  10. Billy
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    Oops Peter! It was really late when I typed that. Sorry! Sieg Heil, Grammar Nazi! (or is it Zig Hyle?)

  11. Edward
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 6:24 am | Permalink

    There are a lot of good bands today, but, on the whole, I think it’s true that kids aren’t angry, which, I think, is the main thrust of this post. Things might have been different if we’d had a draft, but we don’t need one because the economy’s so bad. It’s funny how that works.

  12. Mr. X
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    I don’t think anyone was saying that punk rock, or even loud music, for that matter, is the only legitimate form of protest. Bob Dylan, I think we’d all agree, questioned authority and wrote songs of rebellion. With that said, I do think it’s legitimate to question why it is that we don’t see more of that today. Which isn’t to say that bands today aren’t good, and worthy of attention. Not every band has to have a “message”. Still, it’s curious that there aren’t more that do.

  13. Billy
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    It takes way more energy to be angry than to be happy, and today’s youth are just kind of lazy.

  14. Posted July 18, 2011 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    It was my opinion that Guitar Hero and Rock Band killed an entire generation of potential musicians.

  15. Joel
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    As someone who played in one of those less energetic, less loud bands, and someone who is in between ages where I was really a youth in either camp, it seems like this is really a discussion about authenticity.

    Comparing 90’s hardcore and post punk with today’s chillwave is about more than just music. To me, the energy and aggression in the 90’s was a reaction to materialism and fakeness of the decade before. There seemed to be a sense that we wanted to throw it all off and be REAL. I think this was the appeal of grunge, early emo, hardcore, and everything else that had no keyboards. We wanted to throw off everything fake and be extreme, be real.

    But I think what happened is that energy, and that enthusiasm of smashing a mic on your head, at some point, stopped seeming real. When rap-core, pop-punk, and other aggressive music became plastered all over MTV and commercials in the early aughts, it started to feel fake and put on just for show. I remember seeing bands who had a lot of energy, but it looked so staged that it turned me and many others off to the whole idea of going nuts on stage. It seemed more authentic to just stand there.

    As far as not being mad politically, I don’t think that’s just a generation thing. I think we as an entire culture are too placid and distracted and disillusioned. It just so happens that the younger people are typically the ones making new music.

    But maybe I’m just not quite young enough to fully understand it either. Everyone in my band owns a house.

  16. Heidi
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    I’d like to take this opportunity to shamelessly introduce you to some of my library teens (well they are in their twenties now) and their band, Stinky Pete and the Prospectors. While, they are not full of angst, they are full of energy and they are much better live in which they do a killer cover version of Oingo Boingo’s Little Girls and a few Talking Heads numbers (who knew kids these days even knew of these bands!), as well as there own original music. The one featured in the Youtube video is titled JG, and is a retelling of Jurassic Park and how awesome Jeff Goldblum is. They give me a bit of hope that there are still some creative thinking youngsters out there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PJ4YDew7RA

  17. Heidi
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    Self correction —“THEIR own original music” not there.

  18. Posted July 18, 2011 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    I work with kids all day. They are angry. Their music angry. Their angry music is sometimes our old angry music because they listen to hard rock and metal classics… probably introduced to them by their parents and Rock Band. Their angry music is also aggressive hip hop and rap music that may not speak to you… but it is theirs and that is the point…. they want to alienate you as much as you wanted to alienate the establishment in the 90’s…. they just aren’t doing it with rock music… maybe you need to see some 20 year olds in a screamo band or listen to some rap lyrics…. there’s TONS of energy there.

  19. Bob
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    The problem is beards. Those goddamn hipster beards and stupid mustaches. With an exception being made only for The Band, nothing good musically ever came from artists in their beard phase. These bands all have beards and that’s why they suck and bore the crap out of even themselves. Also, enough with the stupid use of either “bear” or “wolf” in band names. The endless use of some form of these two animals is ruining music.
    Honestly, I think the problem is just that there are no songs left. The issue I have with all the indie bands that everyone fawns over: Grizzley Bear, Deerhoof, Fleet Foxes, etc….none of them can write a fucking song. It’s all well and good to use analog equipment and vintage instruments and love the Zombies & Beach Boys, but learn to write a song that actually hold up. I think they’ve all been written. Sorry kids, there’s just no more songs left.

  20. gary
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    old people and yuppies ruin music. they do it for every generation. it’s why the eagles still tour, sonic youth still have a record deal, and people want to build statues of iggy pop.

    mark and andy prove that old people and yuppies are continuing to ruin music to this very day. i’m glad it was caught on tape for the next generation so they can be warned not to turn into douchebags like the generation before them did.

  21. Posted July 18, 2011 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    The Eagles can still tour if they like, Sonic Youth are also free to play. You don’t have to go and see them, if you don’t like.

    I don’t see how a band breaking up makes their great music any greater. By your reasoning, we should all just do one great thing in life and then immediately kill ourselves.

    Personally, I find the problem with children today is that they have too much. Bands in the 60’s really didn’t have that much to work with. Records of blues musicians were hard to get, if they existed at all, and often bands would have to make do with whatever they could find.

    Children now have unprecedented access to music history, but, in my view, do little to improve on it. While there are a great many fine and innovative musicians out there, the spirit is lacking simply because of the impossibility of improving upon that which is already regarded as sacred.

    As for anger, well, much of the anger in mine and Andy’s day was misplaced and superficial. True, there were some truly angry and spirited people, but what Andy forgets is the multitude of exceedingly bad recordings by children from nice households in the suburbs, and the sea of nauseating college rock bands that existed on every corner at the time.

    What Andy misses, though, is that the demographic of anger has very much changed from his day. I can think of a ton of great metal bands out there right now. The fans may not be as sophisticated as punk fans in the 80’s, but they are just as pissed off.

  22. Mr. X
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    There’s nothing new under the sun. In the days of ancient Rome it was bread and circuses. Today it’s drugs and television. There have always been mechanisms to keep people sedated.

  23. Eel
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    Andy, you might be able to cash in on that Metal addiction of yours.

    http://lineout.thestranger.com/lineout/archives/2011/07/15/swedish-man-collects-disability-for-heavy-metal-addiction

  24. Andy C
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    Thank you Mark for dragging me back on to your fucking blog.

    “The problem with kids today”?…
    I DON’T think there is any difference between the kids today and the kids of any other generation. My sister teaches high school and bitches about “the kids today”. Every generation says that. I work with high school age kids at work and I see no real changed. Can most of them be pretty lame? Yeah but most were back when we were young too.

    As for music being better back then…
    Fuck in ’82 maybe 1% of the kids in my school were listening to bands like DEVO and Black Flag. The other 99% liked Loverboy and Journey. In ’76 when CBGBs was at it’s prime, Paul McCartney and Wings were top of the charts. So much for the golden age of punk.

    Why are you people talking about bands being political? Druid Perfume aren’t political! The Ramones weren’t political. I cringe when kids try to write about what they don’t know. Last thing the world needs is another Dead Kennedys.

    I don’t care as much about bands being angry. I look for angst. Outsider, looser rock. Saw a band from A2 in a basement a while back. They had two saxophones and the drummer sang about how he hates being a dishwasher at Dominique. See! An angry band and writing about what he knows! In a sense it does become a social commentary but I’m sure he didn’t think of it that way.

    Smashing a mic on your head may not be your thing and that is perfectly fine. What I listen to isn’t better than what you listen to, it’s just what I like personally. What I get out of my conversation with Mark is he needs some modern bands to get behind. Since he doesn’t get out to clubs to find them himself, why don’t you commenters start sending him some links so he can take a break from Pylon.

    Peter, as for…
    “the multitude of exceedingly bad recordings by children from nice households in the suburbs, and the sea of nauseating college rock bands that existed on every corner at the time.”

    Good Satan I don’t forget them. Most of my own bands have been in reaction to them. As for the 90’s, I feel very little in innovation was offered. Garage, swing, rock-a-billy, hippy jam bands were all were regurgitated then. It was pretty bad. The same time we saw some great stuff come out of basements and tiny clubs. Today is no different.

    Also Peter, I also was quite clear to Mark that the metal scene and that’s what I pretty much listen to now. That’s not in the quote and I have no interest in watching the interview to see if made it in. Mark wanted to focus on “rock bands” that play the local clubs.

    In short.
    Mark, maybe you should listen to extreme metal like Peter and I. It’s everything you’re looking for: hard, angry, angst ridden, and political. Plus a lot of the guys doing it are closer to your age and the crowds are also the nices people I’ve met to date.

    To the “kids”:
    Playing music, is a great outlet. It’s like sports for geeks. Hit hard, play loud, sweat a bit. There’s nothing like it. A guitar is not an accessory to impress your friends, it’s an instrument to be used to release what’s inside. Be it angry, happy, frustrated, and even mellow.

    Later white people,
    -Andy C

  25. K2
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    For those of you think there’s no passion in music, I give you – The Weezer Cruise!

    http://www.theweezercruise.com/

  26. Posted July 18, 2011 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    Metal people are completely awesome.

  27. Freddy Rubskin
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    I can’t get into music made by people who don’t know what it’s like to be hungry. But that’s my only real qualifier. If you’re ‘feeling it’ while you’re ‘doing it’ then I’ll pay attention, see if I can get into it.

    Even the irony thing doesn’t bother me. Ypsi’s Manhole (yacht rock metaparody) works because they still get into it. Really get into it. Same with the Patrick Elkins’s (actual poetry meets freakout) stuff.

    A song is divisive by nature– it wants to work the same way every time. A frozen or re-creatable moment or idea. I guess I’d rather have a moment that feels and otherwise seems authentic to me than one that seems skillfully re-created –even by someone with massive skill — if they did it without emotional investment.

    Without that human thing in the moment, it’s all plastic scene to me. It’s like I told this girl who asked if I had any Animal Collective: Just go to the nearest American Apparel, push over the skinny boy leaning against the wall smoking, take his ipod, and hit play.

  28. Freddy Rubskin
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    Oh, and Peter Larson?
    I taught English for a decade and am convinced that there’s nothing more boring than a Grammar Nazi Blogger.
    (Although I admit you are right about “Metal people.”)

  29. Posted July 18, 2011 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    I knew this post would be contentious, but I think it’s good to discuss shit like this. Thanks for playing along… Before we go any further, though, I’d like to apologize for being somewhat less than artful in how I presented the subject. I kind of conflated a few things that I was thinking about, and I’m afraid that, as a result, a lot of my meaning was lost.

    Let’s start with what I wasn’t saying.

    I wasn’t saying that Druid Perfume was political. And I wasn’t saying that music had to be loud to express anger. And, perhaps most importantly, I wasn’t saying that a band had to have a “message” to be worth a damn. Most good songs, after all, are just about the biological urge to get laid. And that’s fine.

    What I was trying to express wasn’t so much about music as about youth culture in general. I just don’t get that kids aren’t in the street, going crazy. Druid Perfume just provided the spark to get things going.

    Anyway, I just think it’s good to get people talking about his shit.

    And, Andy, the video isn’t edited at all. It’s our whole conversation. I just trimmed the transcript a bit.

    Oh, and here’s my favorite comment, left by someone on Facebook, where links to this video are being shared.

    “What I think is pathetic, is old guys who landed in good jobs thinking youth should lead a rebellion. Thinking that because they (old guys) pierced or ripped something in the 90s they did their part to inspire deep, lasting cultural change.”

    This, of course, is completely wrong, but I like being called a pathetic old guy.

    For the record, I don’t think that I’ve done anything in my life that inspired cultural change, either lasting or fleeting. I was just wondering about why kids today don’t seem to play with the same intensity. And, what’s so bad about a guy with a job urging kids to rebel? Would you rather have a pathetic old guy urging kids to be complacent?

    Anyway, I love you guys, and I welcome your criticism. In fact, I thrive on it.

  30. Bob
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

    It’s a great topic and I don’t think it has anything to do with being old. This is the worst time for music in my lifetime. I’ve questioned whether I’m just too old, but I don’t believe it. I want to like new stuff. I want to get as excited about something as I was about The Replacements, or Uncle Tupelo, or Flat Duo Jets. There are a few guys around like Fred Thomas, who are really great, but not many. I pretty much hate every local band I see, and it’s not because I’m narrow-minded or don’t want to like it.

    I think its technology that’s to blame, and not just the obvious download/file sharing issue. There is just too much recorded music and it’s too easy for every artist to make a record. Most of them shouldn’t. The world just has way too many crappy, basement records. You used to have to really have your shit together to make a record…to get THE CHANCE to cut a record. Or you really had to be a driven and motivated punk to get it done.

    But it’s more than that. Other mediums should be as crappy as music, but they aren’t. Affordable technology has made it possible for good, genuinely independent movies to get made. The proliferation of cable TV networks has made it possible to watch high-quality television all the time. So why does the state of music suck so hard?

  31. Timmy
    Posted July 18, 2011 at 11:00 pm | Permalink

    What I’ve learned from this is old guys think everything on the Internet is “Facebook” even if it’s their own blog. (Mr. Mark, I think I left that “completely wrong” comment here, see above? I’d ask which parts were wrong and why, but since it was completely wrong I guess I don’t need specifics.)

    Even so, I would love to see lefty old guys start a rebellion. Or are the only old guys left with enough rage and jock sweat left to shape culture in the Tea Party?

    I hear the Tea Party is “everything you’re looking for: hard, angry, angst ridden, and political.” Rock on old dudes!

  32. Shevil
    Posted July 19, 2011 at 12:08 am | Permalink

    tired old news. Men beat their chests and strum their useless cockstrings. If you want social change take the mic, drums and the fucking soundboard from them to the population that will fuck fucks to real revolution. Then chain yourself and listen. Quiet riot to the withering pricks. Lose control you paper admirals of progress. Cock rock. Cock rock. Cock rock. But you do not want revolution. You want cock rock and punch clocks. You want your place. An empty place to fuck.

  33. Children's Crusade
    Posted July 19, 2011 at 12:42 am | Permalink

    What has happened is ye old people have learned to hate your own prosperity. It happens all the time. It is called guilt.
    Interesting that every generation that takes over steals and then (as though in the most complete Tea Party revisionist history power grab) tries to completely take ownership of the whole damn cutlure and shut out what came before and what could be after.
    I forget what shitty punk group claimed they were going to “destroy rock and roll” and then proceeded to play the same three juke joint chords that had been played all over the US since some cotton picker made a banjo out of a fucking dipper gourd. So they destroyed rock and roll by playing it, and playing a crappier, angrier, dumbed down version of it? And then the history books claimed they had made something new? Yeah, blustery, fake bullshit is pretty old stuff.
    That is what your idea of progress leads to. It is fake. When the circle comes back again and it is obvious there is no real progress, you just keep on pretending it is there, and what’s more, that you were the agent of the progress.
    Mark if you really want to encourage the youth to rebel, you have named the cricumstances to require it; old people advising complacency. If you want them to think of you as a douchebag, by all means encourage them to rebel from your little computer keyboard.
    I like reading this site and hearing what Mark and the others have to say, but honestly it always puts me in that same mood. I always feel like Peter Fonda must have felt after the trip to New Orleans in Easy Rider when Dennis Hopper congratulates him for all their accomplishments. Hopper says, “We did it, man”. Peter Fonda says, “No, we blew it.”

    Check out this from nineteenth century,

    “Most blameless is he, centered in the sphere
    Of common duties, decent not to fail
    In offices of tenderness, and pay
    Meet adoration to my household gods,
    When I am gone. He works his work, I mine.”

    There is your progress. So drink life to the lees, immaculate punk scenesters.

  34. Bob
    Posted July 19, 2011 at 6:39 am | Permalink

    It’s so adorable when high school students get to the part of lit class where they read On The Road.

  35. Posted July 19, 2011 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    Quiet Riot were one of the greatest live bands I’ve ever seen. That’s no joke.

  36. Bob
    Posted July 19, 2011 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    Quiet Riot couldn’t miss, because all they did was cover great Slade songs!

  37. Neil Young
    Posted July 19, 2011 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    Old man look at my life.
    I’m a lot like you were.

  38. Posted July 19, 2011 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Bob, Quiet Riot certainly covered some great Slade tunes, but they usually played more than 2 songs live.

    Clearly, you did not get the chance to see them. They were a fantastic live band.

  39. kjc
    Posted July 19, 2011 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    lol Timmy.

  40. Bob
    Posted July 20, 2011 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    I saw Quiet Riot in the 80’s, they actually were a solid band. They were better than most of the clown bands they were lumped in with. I actually meant their appreciation for Slade was a compliment. Slade were great and underrated. Even Paul Westerberg and Tommy Stinson have acknowledged that Slade were the secret blueprint for the Replacements.

  41. Posted July 20, 2011 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    Slade were also awesome. You are correct that no band can do wrong when channeling the spirit of Slade.

  42. Chairman Meow
    Posted July 20, 2011 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    You think the radicalized, angry young musicians of today would be playing at the Shadow Art Fair? That’s like asking if the Wu-Tang Clan would play at the Dexter Country Faire.

  43. Chairman Meow
    Posted July 20, 2011 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    The issue, in all sincerity, is about hipsters, and hipsterism. In my experience—though generalizations tend to miss things here and there—members of the young scene with lots of tatts, chains, beards, tight pants, and so forth, are more interested in matters of style and image than, for example, members of the Ruckus Society, or young workers on an organic farm, who are less interested in how they’re perceived by their peers, and more interested in forms of communitarian resistance. While most hipsters, when faced with the grind of late 30s/early 40s work and family life, will shed the trappings of Unicorn Dance Band and who-gives-a-fuck, etc., a few of them *can* succeed (climb) via a life in academia, where one is allowed, and sometimes encouraged, to remain ineffectual.

  44. kjc
    Posted July 20, 2011 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    “While most hipsters, when faced with the grind of late 30s/early 40s work and family life, will shed the trappings of Unicorn Dance Band and who-gives-a-fuck, etc., a few of them *can* succeed (climb) via a life in academia, where one is allowed, and sometimes encouraged, to remain ineffectual.”

    hehe

  45. notoneofthecoolkids
    Posted July 20, 2011 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    Great interview, didn’t come off as an Angry old man to me…
    I so agree with Andy’s need to go to Metal concerts to see real passion. I have been turning to live Blues lately to feel passion in a live concert again.

    I have a few theories about what is happening in music, art and rebellion among our youth. I know that the cutting of Arts and Music education in public schools; rural and city, is the number one reason that there is an abyss of passion in our youth and their art. Poor kids are born just as talented as upper middle class kids, but without the public schools and passionate teachers to put that instrument or paint brush in that child’s hand…then there talent will most likely never grow. Passion in Art and Music often comes from those who struggle and when the poor yet creative child is given no outlet to express his pain, then we not only loose that child to drugs or depression, we loose the potential art that may have come from the healing properties of being creative. I would have been lost without my Middle School Choir and Drama teacher…

    So maybe the bands we see today are made up of upper middle class/rich kids whose parents bought (and maybe still buy) their kids whatever they wanted including maybe an electric guitar set up and private camps and lessons when they were, say…12…and now they play in a band and pay their rent because mom and dad help them….they fake angst and dirty up their jeans before they go on stage…

    I just don’t look at the bands today and imagine any of them ….working at McDonalds and saving up so they can buy that cool Les Paul Guitar and amp that they saw in a pawn shop window in Detroit. I look at them and imagine…that they still take their laundry to mom.
    (Don’t even get me started on the over prescribing of anti depressants and how that is killing art in youth.)

  46. TaterSalad
    Posted July 20, 2011 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

    While we all are on the subject of “kids”:

    Why does Barack Obama support AND fund Planned Parenthood? Stop these abortions now! Stop Planned Parenthood performing abortions!

    http://therealrevo.com/blog/?p=51068

  47. kjc
    Posted July 20, 2011 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    i thought kids were the problem. why have more?

  48. Caring Parent
    Posted July 20, 2011 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    TaterSalad, speaking of Obama and Planned Parenthood, have you seen this yet?

  49. Meta
    Posted August 5, 2011 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    “8 Reasons Young Americans Don’t Fight Back: How the US Crushed Youth Resistance”

    http://www.alternet.org/vision/151850/8_reasons_young_americans_don't_fight_back:_how_the_us_crushed_youth_resistance

  50. Anonymous
    Posted August 11, 2011 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    Five reasons indie rock doesn’t rock.

    http://www.craveonline.com/music/articles/172103-5-reasons-why-indie-rock-doesnt-rock?start

  51. Dark Master
    Posted August 21, 2011 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

    Speaking of Black Metal, did you hear that George Clooney agreed to buy the bones of Bathory’s Quorthon for 1.6 million dollars?

    http://tyrannyoftradition.com/2011/07/11/george-clooney-agrees-to-buy-bones-of-bathory’s-quorthon-for-1-6-million-dollars/

  52. Anonymous
    Posted August 29, 2011 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    Relevant:

    http://imgur.com/4X8gj

2 Trackbacks

  1. By Shadow Art Fair 2012 (part three) on July 24, 2012 at 9:31 pm

    […] Shadow was a great time, y’all never disappoint.The science teacher-looking guy is my friend Andy, who, as you might recall, once stirred up a lot of shit on this site by saying, “I detest […]

  2. […] Art Fax. Just stuff some money in a box, and wait for your artwork to arrive by fax… Andy Claydon’s Heavy Metal Bicycle. Pedal your ass off and generate loud, fierce power chords… Molly […]

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