Would it be wrong to threaten Glenn Beck?

    OK, so I’m sitting here tonight, reading all about the lunacy that transpired yesterday, as thousands of disturbed individuals around the country took to the streets at the behest of a criminally irresponsible FOX News personality, waving their insane placards and calling for Obama’s head, and I’m wondering if perhaps, before this all goes too far, it might make sense for us to pass along a message to Glen Beck… It would be a simple message… Perhaps not altogether ethical, but simple… Here it is.

    “If anything should happen to President Obama, we’re going to hold you personally responsible.”

    When you read the reports on Beck’s protests yesterday, look at the photos, and listen to what the participants had to say, it’s not too hard to imagine where all of this might be leading. Beck and others are feeding the paranoid conspiracy theories of our least stable citizens, and, in my opinion, deserve a great deal of responsibility for the fact that there’s talk of armed rebellion in our country today. The fact that Presidential death threats are up by as much as 400% is not a coincidence, as far as I’m concerned. These people are being cultivated. And I think it’s only right to remind Beck and others of his ilk that, when something eventually happens, we’ll be holding them responsible, right along with the perpetrators.

    I think that Beck should know, every time he infers that Obama is raising a militant black army to usher in a fascist state, or that the White House is infested with “radical, revolutionary and in some cases Marxist” advisers, that he will be held to account. When he tells his followers that our democratically elected President is an illegal alien looking to “settle old racist scores,” he needs to know that there will be consequences. I’m not suggesting that anyone take action against him, or force him off of television. But, I do think that he needs to be made very aware of the fact that his words have consequences, and that we’re paying attention.

    91209protest1When Beck says, “The time for silent dissent has long passed,” and urges his followers to heed the words of Jefferson and water the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants, he needs to be reminded that it’s not just his fans who are listening. And, when he tells his followers to rise up, and take “their” nation back, he needs to know that he’ll one day be made to answer for it. (And the same goes for the executives at FOX News.) What I’m thinking we need is one striking, ubiquitous image of Beck’s face, accompanied by a phrase like, “Your words have consequences.” (Does anyone out there in the audience know Shepard Fairey?) I’d love for Beck to see that image every day, everywhere he goes, and be reminded of the fact that we’re holding him personally responsible.

    And, for what it’s worth, I think this is a lot more respectful than the other idea that I had, which was to start collecting a bounty to be offered against Beck if, God forbid, something happened to Obama. While I’d hate to think that any such threat would ever be acted upon, I can’t help but think that Beck’s behavior would be considerably improved if, before he went on the air every day, he saw an online tote board showing how many tens of millions have be pledged to bring him to justice should anyone in his audience cross the line.

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      69 Comments

      1. Oliva
        Posted September 13, 2009 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

        Excellent, essential post, Mark. Mighty thanks.

      2. EOS
        Posted September 13, 2009 at 11:40 pm | Permalink

        Yes Mark, it would be wrong to threaten Beck. If anything happens to Glen Beck, should we hold you personally responsible? Are you really so blind that you can’t see that you are doing the very same thing that you accuse Beck of?

      3. Posted September 14, 2009 at 12:47 am | Permalink

        @EOS: Last time I checked, Beck isn’t calling for Obama to be “held responsible” :P

      4. Posted September 14, 2009 at 12:49 am | Permalink

        So I just twittered this post and made it my Facebook status – this is a link to my tweet if anyone wants to RT http://twitter.com/Pedal/status/3974541780 – looks like Shepard Fairey has a twitter account for his Obey site.

        If enough people RT it, he’ll be hard pressed to ignore reading this post.

      5. Karen
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 6:04 am | Permalink

        I don’t see what’s so objectionable. The Republicans are always talking about being the party of “personal responsibility.” And all Mark is suggesting is that Beck be reminded of that. It’s a very conservative notion, actually.

      6. Oblivio
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 6:07 am | Permalink

        “Threaten” is probably too strong of a word. “Remind him of the responsibility that comes with his position” is probably more to the point.

      7. Jules
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 7:35 am | Permalink

        A most excellent post, Mark. What a loathsome creature he is.

      8. Brackinald Achery
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 7:43 am | Permalink

        For the record, I think Beck is a phony muttonhead who has suddenly adopted the liberty movement’s rhetoric (that he scorned during the republican primaries) without abandoning the war (which is sucking our economy dry as a huge part of excess government spending), thrown in a bunch of rediculous conspiracy theories, and once again helped the neocons hijack the label of “small government” undeservedly. There’s enough reasons to actually be up in arms without his phony bullshit reasons. The worst part is that he can’t even act. I appreciate it when people try to decieve me, that they at least respect my intelligence enough to be a good actor.

      9. Brackinald Achery
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 7:46 am | Permalink

        Also, I’ve seen news that puts the number in attendance at over a million. The overhead photos I’ve seen back it up.

      10. Mike want longr name
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 8:11 am | Permalink

        When Afghani children are murdered by US Predator drones, should we hold Obama personally responsible?

      11. Laura Goins
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 8:16 am | Permalink

        Here’s an interesting idea:

        http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/09/can-a-mere-domain-name-be-defamation-glenn-beck-says-yes.ars

      12. Kevin
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 8:35 am | Permalink

        Is anyone planning to protest the Michigan Chamber of Commerce event he’ll be speaking at in a few days?

      13. Katie L.
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 9:16 am | Permalink

        BA – Nate Silver of fivethirtyeight.com rejects the claim that 1 million people attended the rally. He pegs the number at 60,000 – 70,000 based on DC Fire Department estimates. See: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/09/size-matters-so-do-lies.html

      14. dp in exile
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 9:43 am | Permalink

        I have long thought that the company I work for is wasting money being a member of the Ypsilanti Chamber of Commerce. I confirmed with my insurance rep that the Ann Arbor Chamber, not the Ypsilanti Chamber, is the local organization that offers small group Blue Cross discounts. I confirmed that my company gets its discounts from a different membership organization. This post has inspired me not to renew our membership. I cannot identify any benefit to being a member given the politics that member dues support.

        Looking over the program for the Beck headlined event, I noticed Ypsilanti’s State House Representative, Alma Wheeler-Smith, is on the morning panel. I imagine the only reason she was allowed on the panel is because she is running for Governor and could be an alternative to the anointed one (John Cherry) for chamber members looking to meddle in Democrat politics. That she is associated with this event isn’t terribly surprising given it is hard for me to quantify what she has done to benefit our district in nearly six years (outside par-for-the-course constituent services). What is surprising is that she would be affiliated with an event where Beck was the headline speaker.

      15. Oliva
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 9:51 am | Permalink

        MSU College Democrats are organizing a protest; see their Facebook entry:
        http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=132935024287&ref=nf

      16. Oliva
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 10:04 am | Permalink

        Here is something to chomp on (and spit out with feeling). Beck is being paid $25,000 for this dinner speech. Who knows how much more in flight, limo, etc.

        The 2000 census figures give the median income per household in Ypsilanti as: $28,610.

        The census figures will be updated soon, but here are others from 2000, for your interest:

        The median income for a household in the city is $28,610, and the median income for a family is $40,793. Males have a median income of $30,328 versus $26,745 for females. The per capita income for the city is $16,692. 25.8% of the population and 16.9% of families are below the poverty line. Out of the total population, 30.1% of those under the age of 18 and 15.3% of those 65 and older are living below the poverty line. –http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Ypsilanti:Michigan.html

      17. E. G. Penet
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 10:41 am | Permalink

        To All The Young Voices Who Find Time To Blog On This Site:

        The only right way to answer the craziness going on is to vote by letter and by ballot on every issue.

        Sounds old fashioned, eh?

        I remember a few here calling folks like me “ancients.”

        Well, the ancient wisdom will hold true, I promise, if you express your support for what the President is doing in writing and by ballot. The opposition will be at the polls in large numbers, especially at the upcoming midterms next year.

        Work with MoveOn, AARP, and every other moderate to liberal group supporting Health Care reform … whatever aspect they propose.

        Keep your heads on your shoulders and work WITH the Congress to get their work done. Rip the rearview mirror from your patriotic windshield and keep moving forward. Ignore all signs directing you to Status Quo or posters that urge you to turn around. “One Step Forward, Two Steps Back” was Stalin’s plan. We’re not headed that way. In fact, the opportunity this terrible recession offers us is another “giant step” forward for America.

        It’s elbow to elbow time. Don’t break ranks. We’re movin’ on!

      18. EOS
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 10:50 am | Permalink

        Media bias? Cindy Shehan shows up with several friends to protest war at the Bush ranch and every news agency in the country shows up to film. More than a million descend on Washington, D.C., no problems, no arrests, and there’s no (or minimal) news coverage.

      19. Brackinald Achery
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 11:41 am | Permalink

        As a further addendum to my previous post, yes, it would be wrong to threaten muttonhead Glen Beck for exercising his freedom of speech. If he abuses it illegally, there will be ample evidence and motivation to prosecute him.

        The best defense against people saying things that aren’t true is to point out how they are untrue one at a time, and replace them with the truth.

      20. Meta
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

        “What do you get when you combine the worst economic downturn since the Depression with the first black president? A surge of white racial resentment, loosely disguised as a populist revolt.”

        http://www.metafilter.com/84993/Misdirection

      21. Curt Waugh
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

        EOS, don’t fuck with Nate Silver. His numbers are superb. You are wrong. You are spreading falsehoods with no critical assessment.

        Is anyone surprised?

      22. Brackinald Achery
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

        Thanks for the correction, Katie L.

        When Afghani children are murdered by US Predator drones, should we hold Obama personally responsible?

        Actually, yes. The buck really does stop with the Commander in Chief regarding waging war. That’s what Commander in Chief means. And it’s not like it was an isolated event that some psycho soldiers went nuts and did, it’s policy. So yes, Mike. Yes. Same goes with innocent Pakistanis. A country we’re not at war with.

      23. dp in exile
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

        I concur with BA’s above statement regarding Mr. Obama being held responsible for drone deaths in Afghanistan and Pakistan. He is taking ownership of this war from the last President, so the buck stops at his desk.

        The whole reason we are in this mess to begin with is because Members of Congress refused to hold Mr. Bush accountable (and still do to this day) for lying the American people into war with Iraq. Had we focused on cleaning up the Al Qaeda network that the CIA created to fight the Soviets to begin with none of this stuff, including the attacks on 11 September 2001 may never have happened.

        But that is the great American lesson of the day: we must be responsible for our actions: from our national exertion of imperial power to our personal ineptitudes that make us fat and unhealthy, or take out loans on homes we can’t afford.

      24. Steven T
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

        As much as it pains me to say it, there is a significant difference between killing a civilian and killing a President. Both are clearly horrible, but one is world-changing. I’m not suggesting that our President isn’t responsible for the collateral damage done around the world in our name. (I think we all are.) I’m only saying that, in the whole scheme of things, the two aren’t comparable.

      25. EOS
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

        Well Curt, why don’t we wait until the experts provide a critical assessment of the satellite photos? I’ll bet you’ll be surprised.

      26. Tim
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

        EOS, do you mean the photo of the Promise Keepers rally 10-years ago? That was the photo that was distributed by those claiming that over a million people were there.

      27. Trudatte
        Posted September 14, 2009 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

        Brackinald!!!

        I toss!You duck!!!!

        Fluck the duck.

      28. EOS
        Posted September 15, 2009 at 6:05 am | Permalink

        Tim,

        No. Are you confused concerning the photo’s from the “million man” march? Their lawsuit is what prevents the Park Service from providing estimates.

        I don’t know how many were actually at the 9/12 rally. Media estimates have ranged from 10,000 to 2 million. Nate Silver reported what one fireman said early in the day. As far as I’ve seen in print, he didn’t do an analysis himself. Those at the events tend to overestimate, those opposed underestimate.

        Analyzing the satellite photos is perhaps the best way to estimate. That’s all I’m saying.

      29. Tim
        Posted September 15, 2009 at 6:54 am | Permalink

        EOS, I’m talking about the fake photo distributed by some conservative bloggers:
        http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/09/14/that-photo-of-the-912-march-on-washington-its-fake/

      30. Robert
        Posted September 15, 2009 at 10:55 am | Permalink

        HA HA, Brackinald Achery and EOS, you both were suckered by a fake photo of the rally crowds. You two should have been at the protest. You could have fit right in, and brought the attendance up to 70,002.

      31. Brackinald Achery
        Posted September 15, 2009 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

        lol! I stand corrected!

      32. Beck Lover
        Posted September 15, 2009 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

        Concerning the claim that there were close to 2 million people in DC for the protest, Beck has proof. Some university somewhere said so.

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/15/glenn-beck-17-million-att_n_287136.html

      33. Beck Lover
        Posted September 15, 2009 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

        From somewhere on the web:

        Take Action on Glen Beck appearance at Michigan
        State and Michigan Chamber and Corporate Support
        for Beck.

        MSU Democrats have called a protest for 5:15-8 PM
        at MSU’s Kellogg Center (on South Harrison, just south
        of Michigan Avenue).

        http://www.facebook.com/

        Michigan Chamber of Commerce has presently removed their “Contact” page
        at their web site (I guess they don’t want to be contacted),
        but here it is from the Google cache:

        http://74.125.95.132/

        Let’s make the Chamber’s decision to host Glenn
        Beck the public and community relations disaster that
        it deserves to be….for the Chamber and its corporate sponsors.

        Corporate supporters of the Beck appearance of interest
        to Michigan environmentalists:

        ==============

        Consumers Energy
        A Consumers Energy contact is available for media inquiries at all times. Consumers Energy corporate media inquiries may be directed to one of the following:
        Director of News & Information
        Public Information Director
        Jeff Holyfield
        Dan Bishop
        (517) 788-2394
        (517) 788-2395
        Note: Please use the telephone numbers listed for a timely response. E-mail is not monitored outside of normal business hours or when recipients are out of the office.

        ——————–

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        Contact Media Relations

        We believe that open, honest communication is one of the fundamentals in operating a successful business. That philosophy extends to the media, as well as our employees, our customers and our shareholders. We hope you will find the information in our News Room helpful, but we know there are bound to be questions.

        DTE Energy Media Relations:

        Members of the media can reach us around the clock at 313.235.5555 or toll-free at 866.966.5555. Media relations staff members also are available at the numbers below during office hours.

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      34. Brackinald Achery
        Posted September 15, 2009 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

        Here is a video of the 9/12 protest crowd size. I make no claims to its authenticity.

      35. Curt Waugh
        Posted September 15, 2009 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

        Sorry EOS, you lose. You suck. Get your facts straight, Glenn Beck-light. You can tell your schwanker to quite pointing at Michele Malkin now, too.

        ABC News: 60-70,000
        http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tea-party-protesters-march-washington/story?id=8557120

        Faux News: “tens of thousands”
        http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/12/tea-party-express-arrives-march-washington-protest-government-spending/?test=latestnews

        Wall Street Journal (a liberal rag if ever there was one): “tens of thousands”
        http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125276685577405975.html?mod=rss_Today's_Most_Popular

        Associated Press: “tens of thousands”
        http://www.ajc.com/news/georgians-lead-protest-at-137117.html?imw=Y

      36. Frogmore
        Posted September 15, 2009 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

        Are you going to take that, EOS? Come on, man. Get up and start swinging. Quote “some university” and rattle off some nonsense numbers. Reference some obscure law on counting. Don’t just give up. We’re counting on you.

      37. kjc
        Posted September 15, 2009 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

        i can’t imagine why anyone would want to claim there were MORE of these people.

      38. Mike want longr name
        Posted September 15, 2009 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

        “As much as it pains me to say it, there is a significant difference between killing a civilian and killing a President. Both are clearly horrible, but one is world-changing. I’m not suggesting that our President isn’t responsible for the collateral damage done around the world in our name. (I think we all are.) I’m only saying that, in the whole scheme of things, the two aren’t comparable.”

        First of all, while I may in some indirect way be responsible for civilian deaths, I don’t possess the direct power to stop it. Bush did, and Obama does now.

        But to your broader point, do you think the Pakistani and Afghani orphans, or parents who have seen their children killed by American bombs, really care who our shiny new present is? You’re right, their not comparable, but at least you can say that the children are innocent victims, something that cannot be said for Obama, awash as he is in innocent blood.

      39. RUPUS
        Posted September 15, 2009 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

        The educational system has failed, parents have failed and we now have a nation of mesmerized followers. Even FOX dung might be palatable if sifted thoroughly. Unfortunately , there were not enough Americans in the past 40 years taught how to use a dung sifter and think for themselves.
        If you want to laugh about this failure, Mr. Beck and several other “criminally responsible news personalities” …. this link will do the
        trick.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spKr46-KPC0

      40. Posted September 15, 2009 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

        I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Republicans have worked to de-fund public education for decades. They know that the more educated people are, the more likely they are to see through their bullshit.

        And this doesn’t mean that there’s not bullshit on the Democratic side. There is. There’s just more of it on the right.

      41. Oliva
        Posted September 15, 2009 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

        A little less of it on the left in Michigan today, in symbolic terms:
        “Dems Boycott Panel over Beck,”
        http://www.freep.com/section/NEWS06

        Going to grab that link, alas, I see a new headline about Beck whipping up the crowd, which I don’t have the heart to read tonight.

      42. EOS
        Posted September 15, 2009 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

        Curt -
        You are getting real emotional over this issue. I get it – you don’t like Beck and I’m not one of your favorites either. But seriously, lighten up. Beck is an entertainer. Sometimes he brings up issues I agree with, but I wish he weren’t so prominent. He’s not an asset. He keeps trying to rally the “Christian Right” and he’s not even a Christian. More importantly, he’s not a politician and he doesn’t make policy.

        Robert –
        I wasn’t fooled by any fake photo – I didn’t see it. I didn’t even know what Tim was referring to until he posted the link. I’ve been to Roe v.Wade marches in D.C. The media always estimates tens of thousands. I just did a google search on largest D.C. protest and there is a story from the Washington Post about the antiwar march in Sept 2005 – again, tens of thousands. But you’re right. I wish I could have gone to D.C. I did go to Lansing for the tea party in April. Many of the signs were hilarious. And … there were at least a couple that were chilling even for a right wing extremist like me. But hey, it was peaceful, a beautiful spring day, and no one opened fire.

        Frogmore -
        Didn’t want to let you down, but not into a slug fest. Peace out.

      43. Oliva
        Posted September 16, 2009 at 10:20 am | Permalink

        I disagree passionately with the line “Beck is an entertainer.” Not amusing, not simply diversionary–per Webster’s definition (below). Not amusing but hurtful and mean. Not providing a mere diversion but playing a central role in organizing reckless hate and bigotry; stirring up misunderstanding and intolerance; doing much to dumb society down while getting very wealthy from the effort–such as by ripping off Thomas Paine and sullying his message. Not to mention seeming to enjoy making outrageous remarks that leave people feeling threatened, less free, less happy.

        entertainment
        1 : the act of entertaining
        2 a archaic : maintenance, provision b obsolete : employment
        3 a : amusement or diversion provided especially by performers b : something diverting or engaging: as (1) : a public performance (2) : a usually light comic or adventure novel

      44. Posted September 16, 2009 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

        This is not a million people.

        http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7-ywsAgfzig/Sq1CMcRwCqI/AAAAAAAACNQ/6s5dd_kQ9JM/s400/Teabag+March.jpg

        The mall holds about 40,000 people per block. This means it was more like 75,000 people.

        http://monkeyfister.blogspot.com/

        Back in the 1990s, when I was still Active Duty, and stationed in D.C., I made friends with a tour guide named Art. At the time, Art had been a D.C. Tour Guide for 30 years. While hanging out with him on a day off, we were sitting on the Capitol steps looking out over a demonstration on the South Lawn. It seemed like a huge throng of people to me, and I asked him his opinion. He said it was only about 30,000 people, and I asked him how he figured that. He said that the triangle between the sidewalks of the Lawn holds about 20,000 people to the trees, and folks were spilled out into the trees, but few on the sides, and not past the trees. He said, “each block along the Mall holds about 40,000 people for events like this, that one million people would stretch almost to the Washington Monument, and two million would stretch to the Lincoln Memorial, avenue to avenue.” So, looking at the Teabaggers in the picture, below, which was taken at the height of the Flea Bag Rally, it is safe to assume fewer than 100K in attendance. They did well in trying to keep the camera angles low for TV, but this shot tells the truth about the size of the rally: [photo]

        In contrast, the first “Stop the Iraq War” protest, in October of 2002, was on the ellipse (and filled it), and garnered ~100K. The bigger protest, in January of 2003, had ~250K there, plus similar turnout in NYC and LA. The Obama Inauguration weekend saw a full two million on the Mall.

        For an event as highly, and expensively planned, promoted, and organized, it is pretty clear to me that the Teabaggers really are an angry minority. They are loud, and bordering on violent, but they are well and truly in the minority.

        And now, everyone knows them as just a bunch of boorish, Angry White People, and knows that their sole motivation is to disrupt. The only parts of the Constitution that they are even aware of are the second and tenth amendments, and they’re not too sure about the meaning of the tenth. America now knows them– and their crazy– and I think it’s safe to move past them, now. If this is all they could muster, after MONTHS of agitating, then they don’t have “popular” support, they can’t use phrases like “The American People have spoken,” and they cannot speak for the Majority in any way. They have two choices– double down on the crazy and the violence, or go away and support candidates for 2010. The Teabagger movement is over. I wonder what they will do now?

      45. Oliva
        Posted September 16, 2009 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

        Dr. Cherry, you wrote that whole piece (am only asking because of the presence of italics as if it might be quoted–but I think all yours)? Quite wonderful. Thank you so much. Matter-of-factness, mixed with good sense, a pleasing style . . . I do like “Flea Bag Rally.” Sure feels good to chuckle instead of fret or fume.

      46. Posted September 17, 2009 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

        No, the italics are from my friend Tony, who is retired Navy. There’s a link to his blog on that post.

      47. Robert
        Posted September 17, 2009 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

        EOS, if you weren’t “fooled by any fake photo”, why did you say “More than a million descend on Washington, D.C”? What WERE you suckered by? If you were suckered by anything other than a fake photo, it would only seem to me that you are even more of a sucker than I first accused you of, because it would likely mean you took the word of some liar, and that was enough for you to spread that lie. What other lies might you be spreading?

        Your first quote above was taken from your Sep.15 comment to this thread.
        The second quote from you was made to this thread on Sep.14.

      48. EOS
        Posted September 17, 2009 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

        Robert,

        On Monday, Sept. 14, I said more than a million. At that time, the Metro police had estimated 1.2 mil. The Parks and Rec had estimated 1.5 mil. The rally organizers had estimated 1.5 mil. And numerous Internet sites erroneously claimed ABC estimated 2 million. The liberal media collectively said tens of thousands.

        Today, I would say, best estimate, a minimum 500K. However, I still say the best way to estimate would be to analyze the actual satellite photo from the day. Without a doubt, it was the largest conservative protest in the history of Washington, D.C.

      49. Robert
        Posted September 17, 2009 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

        Uh, no, EOS, MICHELLE MALKIN SAID the Metro Police estimated the crowd to be 1.2 million. That’s not the same as the Metro police estimating the crowd to be 1.2 million, in case you didn’t realize that. You see, the “Michelle Malkin said” part of the story is sort of important here. The fact that you dropped that part is sadly typical.

        ALSO, DC Parks and Recreation doesn’t do crowd estimations. They would especially be disinterested in estimating crowds in a NATIONAL PARK! It’s not their jurisdiction. If you were referring to The National Park Service when you said “Parks and Rec” I still have some bad news for you. The National Park Service stopped doing estimates back in 1995. Estimates are done by private companies now using aerial photography. Those lunatics whose lies you are spreading didn’t hire a private business to photograph and give them estimates.

        So saying the Metro Police estimated the crowd to be 1.2 million just because Michelle Malkin said so, is just spreading a lie. And I don’t know how your professed Christian belief system characterizes the act of repeating a lie, but by my standards, spreading a lie is also lying. This is why I say you are a liar.

        Ever since you started commenting to this site you’ve used the same ridiculously low level of diligence in determining the truth behind your statements. It’s sickening to me that your standard doesn’t seem to have improved whatsoever in all that time.

        For the record, that ass Robert who posts to Markmaynard.com says EOS murders kittens. Everyone can just drop the “that ass Robert who posts to Markmaynard.com says” part of that statement though when you repeat it.

      50. Andy Ypsilanti
        Posted September 17, 2009 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

        Disregarding the actual issue here, is there anyone else who is amused by the fact that people who have traditionally said protesting is useless (which I tend to agree with) are now the ones out protesting? Does this mean we get to start yelling “get a job, hippies” at republicans and other right wingers now? Funny how something you thought was terrible and evil an un-American a few years ago suddenly becomes a good idea when you start doing it.

      51. Oliva
        Posted September 17, 2009 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

        Thanks, Dr. Cherry, for pointing me to what was in front of my eyes! Thanks to your friend Tony too.

      52. Brackinald Achery
        Posted September 17, 2009 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

        Times article on Glenn Beck. Pretty good read.

        http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1924348-1,00.html

      53. EOS
        Posted September 18, 2009 at 5:11 am | Permalink

        Robert-

        Call me a liar, but I’ll continue to trust Malkin over Huffington every day of the week. It’s interesting to note that you didn’t cite a reference for your 70,000 estimate, but you want to hang me on standards to which no one else is held accountable – not even yourself.

      54. Oliva
        Posted September 18, 2009 at 6:23 am | Permalink

        EOS, I think people are with you in acknowledging that to be among a crowd of 70,000 or even 100,000 can give the feeling of being in a crowd of millions, as we felt in marches of the past–it’s always confounding to learn real numbers (unless you’re at UM Stadium on a football Saturday). Wishing, however, that the optics, so to speak (ugh, I dislike that word, like Rumsfeld’s “metrics”), had reflected a big crowd of lovely and loving people, not scary mean angry crowds toting messages of hate and intolerance.

        I also wish President Carter had simply added the word “too” before his “many Americans” re. racist attitudes and behavior. Surely we would all agree that too many Americans harbor racist sentiments and we want to be better than that, want to heal. Becoming vigilantly anti-racist is the fine and necessary work ahead for us. Becoming a less overtly racist society over recent years has been one of the greatest things we’ve done for ourselves. Now to go much farther–with the help of young people, who seem more enlightened about race these days than “many Americans.”

      55. EOS
        Posted September 18, 2009 at 7:36 am | Permalink

        Oliva -

        There were significant numbers of African Americans who disagreed with President Bush, yet no one called them racist. There is a huge ideological divide in our country. I oppose many of Obama’s policies as I opposed many of Bush’s policies. It has nothing to do with the melanin content of their skin. A single racist is too many. But labeling anyone who disagrees with an extremely liberal agenda as a racist, is wrong. It does not encourage further dialog and causes further separation, not reconciliation.

        Expression of dissent is a vital part of citizenship, regardless of the race of the current president. You cannot silence opposing points of view by name-calling. That you saw scary mean angry crowds toting messages of hate and intolerance is indicative of your personal bias. The overwhelming majority of Tea Party participants are average Americans who are concerned about the direction our country is headed. They peaceably assemble in large numbers without a single incidence of violence or any individual’s arrest. They are law abiding citizens worried about the future for their children and they don’t even so much as litter.

        We are less racist today than at any other point in time in the history of our country and we are less racist than almost every other country in the world. However, I agree that we must actively work to eliminate racism whenever and wherever it rears its ugly head.

      56. Brackinald Achery
        Posted September 18, 2009 at 7:51 am | Permalink

        It’s time we recognize that the freedom of speech in the first Ammendment is a collective right to protect a State’s representatives in Congress, not a free-for-all for any individual yahoo like Glenn Beck to spout off his rancor to millions of impressionable civilians. If the founders knew we would invent TV, radio, and the internet, they would have clarified what they meant. Private, untrained civilians should not be able to voice their divisive opinions over public airwaves. Congress has a right to pass reasonable speech control laws for the general welfare, as airwaves and the internet are a form of interstate commerce. Let’s stop this barbarous practice that stirs up mobs of commoners against their betters once and for all, for the good of our country!

      57. Simple Sam
        Posted September 18, 2009 at 7:54 am | Permalink

        TVs should only be for educated land owners!

      58. EOS
        Posted September 18, 2009 at 7:59 am | Permalink

        BA -

        You can’t honestly believe that.

      59. Brackinald Achery
        Posted September 18, 2009 at 8:51 am | Permalink

        Irony, my dear Watson.

      60. Oliva
        Posted September 18, 2009 at 9:25 am | Permalink

        EOS,

        I absolutely don’t believe that everyone who opposes the president’s policies is doing so out of racist tendencies. I do think there’s a growing and very despicable strain of reinvigorated racism entering our daily lives more and more, and it’s horrible, hurtful, unacceptable, damages us all ultimately. Quoting even a very bright man won’t be worth much if you want to dismiss it (especially because it’s Jim Wallis writing at huffpost), but it’s worth quoting anyway because his words represent how I feel, and he says it well.

        let’s be honest. We all know that racism still exists in America today. We know that there is a hard core of our white fellow citizens who simply will not accept their black or brown brothers and sisters — especially one in the White House. So while we should not call every disagreement an issue of racism, it is time call out the racism that indeed does still exist — that wounds our soul as a nation, and that obstructs the promise of the United States.

        –http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-wallis/what-racism-still-in-amer_b_290042.html

        Set beside truly vulgar and undeniably racist signs such as those carried at the Brighton tea party, one shown on TV recently, too awful even to describe or link to here–just use your imagination because I can’t bear to link to it (and others photographed in DC and elsewhere) . . . to paraphrase Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., if we live in a racist society (its systems and structures)–see the recent census data about poverty, education, health, etc.–and do not actively oppose it, we are being racist. It IS an awful word to be called. More awful situation to abide. How to get beyond it? Obviously not easy at all. But we–citizens, “leaders,” media members, etc.–must be vigilant and deliberate and keenly aware, see it and oppose it even when it’s pretending to be something else, even when we so hoped we’d turned a giant corner by electing our first black president and having a refreshingly enlightened young generation on race matters and other bright signs. In the country today Glenn Beck represents a hurtful promoter of racism–he’s not the only one. By some terrible oversight of reason and justice, TIME magazine has honored him with a lead article and cover photo. In fairness I haven’t read the article, but others who have say it is much too easy on Beck.

        P.S. I have wondered, EOS, if you’re actually a progressive-minded person posing as a provocateur–trying to stimulate discussion. Are you just pulling our legs? Would you tell if you were?

      61. EOS
        Posted September 18, 2009 at 11:09 am | Permalink

        Oliva -

        I agree that Glen Beck says “hurtful” things. It must have hurt Acorn to have their systemic corruption exposed. It must have hurt Acorn to have their funding taken away by Congress. It must have hurt Acorn to have lost the contract to help with the Census. It must have hurt those poor Acorn workers, who were only trying to help set up a brothel staffed by 13 – 15 y/o illegals, to have lost their jobs and gotten arrested. But don’t blame Glen Beck for Van Jones losing his job. It was Van Jones own words on film that caused him to lose his job.

        You don’t think Beck is entertaining and you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. I don’t think naked or half-naked women swinging on poles is entertaining, and is hurtful and demeaning to women, but there are plenty of adults who would disagree.

        Jim Wallis is a very bright man. He even considers himself smarter than God as he rewrites the Bible to suit his needs. You omitted my favorite quote by King. “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” Your race-baiting is not going to help his dream come true. You’re pretending to be progressive-minded as you stir up racial animosities. Are you really a Republican posing as a progressive? Would you even tell us if it were true?

      62. kjc
        Posted September 18, 2009 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

        best comment i’ve seen lately:

        “I’m an aussie and am totally perplexed that there is ANY debate over whether there should be universal health care – a basic human right – let alone the zany claims that it will result in a socialist or communist style system. What bollocks…only in the US would people march in the streets AGAINST universal healthcare…and an imagined debt and yet,ironically, do no such thing about Bush’s immoral war, his attacking the constitution, blowing the budget, wasting trillions – not to mention taking away hard won liberties and civil rights, condoning torture, stealing an election and forever ruining the reputation of a proud nation…etc.

        I love the US and Americans and hope that y’all see the light before it’s too late. If folks are worried about future debt then they should ALL be for radical health care reform as without it the health care costs will be ginormous (my word for gigantically enormous)and instead they march to prop up a corrupt system that costs them all dearly…even those currently with coverage. It’s hard to come to grips with what seems to be an innate selfishness and ignorance of the issues in many Americans…’none of my tax dollars to pay for a sick person’ type attitude and yet these same people probably call themselves Christians and don’t seem to mind paying their taxes for the super rich, insurance companies and big corporations. Crazy. Kafka-esque. Palin, Hannity, Limburgh and their Foxy ilk are lying treasonous rabble that should be ignored. They would call Jesus a communist.

        Not likely with our evil expat Rupert Murderer-of-Real-Journalism Murdoch manipulating the media. Poor Uncle Sam.”

      63. Posted September 18, 2009 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

        I really don’t want to hear an assessment on the level of racism in the US from a bigot like EoS.

      64. Mark H.
        Posted September 18, 2009 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

        Speaking as an historian of race relations, I will point out that there is a distinguished line of argument that holds that racism is not the same as an individual person’s personal prejudice against people of another so-called ‘race.’ Defining racism as merely personal, according to the line of argument/analysis I am referring to, basically excludes the major manifestations of racial oppression, both now and at other points in the past. In other words, if racism is reduced to the existence or non existence of personal prejudice based on skin color, there’s no explanation for the huge disparities in life-time opportunities (which, to a very large degree, have in the past been and remain now predictable based on the “race” category one is born into). Slavery was NOT the result of prejudice. It was the result of exploitation, and it was supported by institutions built up to perpetuate that type of exploitation, and also by ideas that emerged to justify racial exploitation thru slavery.

        Of course, some try to explain disparities in well being between American racial groups by saying that there are differences in individual effort and hard work between the racial categories, so that what appear as differences between groups are really nothing but differences between individuals….as if American society always has and still does award the labors of the hardest working people.

        Personal bigotry is real but less extensive than in times past. Yet personal bigotry was not the cause of enslavement or slavery, just as today it is not the cause for huge disparities in health care, income, wealth, quality of local schools, or educational attainment when measured by racial categories. Those disparities are real and persistent, and must be explained by something that is….. institutionally deeply rooted in the society. We call that institutionalized racism, and it’s real, and it affects the culture and often deepens or reenforces expressions of personal prejudice.

        That South Carolinan who disobeyed the mores of his region, the norms of his office, the respectable behavior expected of a man his age, and the training of his years of military service, to shout out “You lie,” at the first Black president of the United States was not self-consciously acting with racialized motives. But it is inconceivable to me that a person like him would have dared so disrespect any president who the institutionalized racism of our national life did not make vulnerable to irrational criticisms, like those of the birther conspiracy theorists and the nut jobs who think national health insurance is a threat to individual freedom. Obama is illegitimate when viewed thru the values that have been created by generations of institutionalized racism.

        And I was just talking to the ghost of James Madison, and he quite agrees with me, by the way. The man’s learned a lot since he died, but he was always pretty smart. Funny thing is when you find someone who has stopped learning well before his death. People like that Rep. Wilson from South Carolina.

      65. Mr. X
        Posted September 18, 2009 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

        We should have a Glenn Beck Eats Babies parade in Ypsilanti. I’m imaging all kinds of floats, with each one more outrageous than the next, all pointing to horrific nonsense for which he’s responsible.

        “Glenn Beck cooked an American flag, ate it, and then shit it on a picture of Jesus!”

      66. ypSiWeird
        Posted September 18, 2009 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

        Hitting Glenn Beck is a little complicated and ambitious for me. Would it be okay if I just killed random white peoples babies starting with myself? Can I be arrested if I say that I will kill white peoples babies, I mean, hold white peoples babies “personally responsible” should anything happen to Obama?

        (Holding them personally responsible does mean killing them, right?)

      67. Robert
        Posted September 29, 2009 at 9:18 am | Permalink

        Get a load of this:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVwfdaYuy1k&feature=player_embedded#t=95

      68. Tony
        Posted October 8, 2009 at 8:09 am | Permalink

        Glenn Beck is a national hero, who isn’t like those cowards in the Mass Media who are afraid to speak out on what devious things Obama is doing. A National Civilian army . . . to suppress who?

      69. kjc
        Posted October 8, 2009 at 9:47 am | Permalink

        hi Tony. One of my friends is in the national civilian army. She’s currently selling raffle tickets for CASA of Washtenaw County as a fundraiser. if anyone wants to pay $5 for a chance to win a $2,000 “crooked house” (kidscrookedhouse.com), get in touch with the nice folks at casa, who are doing such good work (www.casawashtenaw.org).

        From their site:

        “We are a national organization of volunteers that judges appoint to speak for the safety and well-being of abused and neglected children. The volunteer status of the CASAs ensures that the children’s well-being remains the sole objective of the CASAs.”

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