Fox Watch Watchers

CNN’s Rick Sanchez, yesterday, called out FOX News on their demonstrated inability to distinguish between covering the news and manufacturing it:

For those of you who want to scratch the scab of journalistic integrity off completely, and stare right into the pulsating mass of goo that is modern reporting, there’s also a good piece in the current issue of The Atlantic… Here’s how the editors introduce it:

With journalists being laid off in droves, ideologues have stepped forward to provide the “reporting” that feeds the 24-hour news cycle. The collapse of journalism means that the quest for information has been superseded by the quest for ammunition. A case-study of our post-journalistic age.

But don’t despair. Thankfully, there are still watchdog organizations out there, fighting the good fight, keeping people honest, and making sure that news gathering organizations don’t cross the line. Why, I just heard today that FOX News has a special division dedicated to policing the American airwaves, looking for instances of bias in reporting. The group is called FOX News Watch, and – if you see anything at all suspicious… like, say, a news organization actively promoting political events and then orchestrating the actions of attendees to make for more compelling television – you can reach out to them, and they’ll see to it that the truth is made known… Their email is: atnewswatch@foxnews.com… Use it often.

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62 Comments

  1. Kelly
    Posted September 23, 2009 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    I just wrote to FOX, reporting their on-air lie that CNN didn’t cover the 912 tea party in DC. Let’s see if they launch an investigation.

  2. Robert
    Posted September 23, 2009 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    Fox was the primary force promoting the 9/12 rally. They produced it the same way they produce their other reality shows. They lied about other networks covering the event. They lied about attendance estimates. And idiots like EOS eat it up and spread those lies.

  3. EOS
    Posted September 23, 2009 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    Freedom Works was the primary force promoting the 9/12 rally. It’s a group led by Dick Armey. There were 37 other groups that provided promotion and financial support, including: The Institute for Liberty, Let Freedom Ring, Free Republic, Campaign for Liberty, and the Ayn Rand Center for Individual Rights. Fox News was not among the sponsors, but they provided significant coverage on their network because they are fair and balanced and it was newsworthy.

  4. kjc
    Posted September 23, 2009 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    “because they are fair and balanced”

    as you told BA recently, you can’t honestly believe that.

  5. Robert
    Posted September 23, 2009 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    EOS, Fox was essentially the official promoter of the event. They were by far the primary reason there were any significant numbers at the rally at all. And even with their constant drumming for days and days leading up to the event, there were nowhere near a tenth of the numbers they claimed. They are unabashed liars, and you are a big fan of course, because that is also what you are.

  6. Ed
    Posted September 23, 2009 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    I don’t even believe adults are discussing this. Please.

  7. Robert
    Posted September 23, 2009 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    What world do you live in, Ed? How do I get there?

  8. Curt Waugh
    Posted September 23, 2009 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    Mark, you crack me up when you post as EOS.

    I just heard that NBC is covering Jay Leno because they’re fair and balanced and just want to get the word out that a neutral comedian has started a new project.

  9. EOS
    Posted September 23, 2009 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    Robert,
    In response to that other thread:

    Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

    Grace is God’s free and unmerited favor shown to guilty sinners who deserve only judgment. It is a free gift. At the moment you are saved, all your sins are forgiven – past, present, and future. Your identity as a Christian is permanent and not dependent on self effort. Many people have a hard time dealing with that idea. They believe it is a gift, but they are somehow worthy or deserving of it. Or else they acknowledge it is a free gift for which they are undeserving of, but immediately try through their own efforts to meet some performance standard, that in their own minds obligates God to provide future blessings, eternal life, and maintains their right to be considered Christian. We can never obligate God by our obedience. Even if we were able to be perfectly obedient in our daily lives after being saved, we would still have to admit that we are unworthy servants who have only done our duty. And once a person is saved, he cannot lose his salvation.

    In Romans 7, Paul talks about the constant war between the spiritual nature and the sinful nature. In 1 John,it says, “If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

    So a person who claims to be a Christian, yet still sins on occasion, they are not so much a hypocrite as they are human with a sinful nature. A Christian isn’t perfect, but is in the process of being perfected. Sanctification is a work of the Holy Spirit, in conjunction with a man’s efforts. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

    Having said that, I do not agree with you that I have written a constant stream of lies on this blog. I have a different perspective than most and on the occasions when I was in error, I have admitted my mistake. We can disagree without either one of us lying. But I certainly don’t need to ask your forgiveness for anything I have written. I wonder what is your motive? Do you think, or were you hoping, that I would be emotionally hurt by your accusations or that my faith might be weakened? I’ve read your postings for a over a year and appreciated many of your comments. The past two days seem out of character for you.

  10. Me
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 1:59 am | Permalink

    “Do you think, or were you hoping, that I would be emotionally hurt by your accusations or that my faith might be weakened?”

    So are you hurt or not?

  11. EOS
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    No. Just disappointed that so many people have misconceptions about Christians. Many think that Christians have a holier than thou attitude and think they are better than others. But the converse is true. The longer a person is a Christian, and the more they read the Bible, the greater is the realization that they fail miserably in attaining the standards of behavior acceptable to God.

    If you ask a random person on the street if they think they are going to heaven, and why, they’ll tell you that they hope to go to heaven because they have tried to live a good life and they have been better than most. To most, it’s performance based and they think they’ve earned the right. But that idea is no where to be found in the Bible. The Bible says that you have to acknowledge that you are a sinful slob whose past actions are deserving of eternal punishment. (My paraphrase.) You must believe that Jesus died on the cross and paid the penalty for your sins. Admit that there’s nothing you can do to save yourself. Ask Jesus to forgive your sins, come into your life and be your personal Lord and Savior. And He will.

    Some people experience an immediate and remarkable change, but most are changed gradually over time. We try, we fail, ask God for forgiveness and help, and try again. A Christian isn’t someone who never sins, but a person who gets up one more time than they’ve fallen.

    A lot of people reject the church because they see at as a bunch of self-righteous hypocrites who talk the talk, but don’t walk the walk. In reality, the church is made up of people who acknowledge they are sinful, and who come together to give each other encouragement to keep trying to avoid sin, but who are loved and accepted even when they do. There are some who hide in a church and pretend to be saved, when that actually isn’t the case, but a true Christian wouldn’t judge them. God will sort us out.

  12. stella
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    Dear EOS,
    If we are referencing other threads here anyway….
    Kindly be a little better about your biblical references if you are going to use scripture to justify arguments, (which from a logic standpoint does not work to prove a damn thing anyway).
    “For centuries, Mary Magdalene has been misidentified in Western Christian Tradition as an adulteress and repentant prostitute, although nowhere does the New Testament identify her as such. Indeed, according to Harvard theologian Karen King, Mary Magdalene was a prominent disciple and leader of one wing of the early Christian movement that promoted women’s leadership. Pope Gregory the Great made a speech in 591 A.D. where he seemed to combine the actions of three women mentioned in the New Testament and also identified an unnamed woman as Mary Magdalene. He stated that she was a prostitute. This erroneous view was not corrected until 1969 when the Vatican issued a quiet retraction.” (Wikipedia) Which in this case I claim as a valid reference since it is backed up in myriad other sources.

    Cheers,
    Stella

  13. kjc
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    and don’t forget a Christian is someone who doesn’t want his tax dollars to go to buses that other people ride, cuz Christians don’t want to pay for any services that don’t benefit them personally, only the greater good of other people like them who also don’t want to pay.

    I can’t recall the verse.

    (yeah, where do people get this “all talk no walk” idea. hmmmm.)

  14. Oliva
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    Re. “the Bible says”–what to do about parts like Deuteronomy 22?

    Maybe some people “reject the church” because they have found other sources of sacred meaning that resonate with them more fittingly, among many other possibilities.

  15. EOS
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    Stella,

    The reference concerning Mary was from Luke 7: 37 – 39. Prostitute is not the exact word used but a commonly understood interpretation in the vast majority of orthodox or mainstream churches. I admit that there is some wiggle room as to her being specifically a prostitute, but there is no doubt that because of some previous behavior on her part she was called immoral.

    Nowhere does the Bible advocate women leadership and the Popes are a legitimate authority only among a single denomination – Catholicism. Ivy league theologians are not recognized by born again believers. I don’t doubt for a second that you can find references somewhere to dispute everything stated in the Bible. Satan is real and his influence is pervasive.

  16. EOS
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    What to do about parts like Deuteronomy 22? Read them for their historical perspective while acknowledging that they are no longer applicable because the Savior has come and provided a better way.

  17. Oliva
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    The Bible says that you have to acknowledge that you are a sinful slob whose past actions are deserving of eternal punishment. (My paraphrase.) You must believe that Jesus died on the cross and paid the penalty for your sins. Admit that there’s nothing you can do to save yourself. Ask Jesus to forgive your sins, come into your life and be your personal Lord and Savior. And He will.

    How do you decide what to keep and what to relegate to history? Am sincerely curious.

  18. EOS
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    The moral values of the Old Testament are still applicable, the ceremonial rules do not apply. There is no longer any need for animal sacrifices or stonings, because Christ, the perfect sacrificial lamb, lived a perfect life and then satisfied the righteous requirements of a Holy God, by giving up His unblemished life to pay for sins. His blood pays for all. Deuteronomy requires that adultery be punished by death. Blood must be shed to pay for sins, but in the New Testament, God provides the blood sacrifice himself. The Old Testament and its voluminous rules shows us that we can’t possibly satisfy all the requirements based on our own efforts. The Old Testament predicts the coming Messiah. The New Testament fulfills the prophecies of the Old Testament. Many times the Old Testament records as history acts which we regard today as horrific. That the Bible records the actions does not mean that God endorses the behavior.

  19. Posted September 24, 2009 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    But you condone denying people without cars public transportation, thereby punishing and marginalizing them for committing the sin of not being like you. You condone “re-education” programs for homosexuals thereby marginalizing them even further because they don’t fit your moral mode.

    I don’t see how these are different from public stoningsi in that they are designed to publically humiliate the offending individual and I’m positive that if you had you’re way, it would make your panties wet to see a bunch of fags get rocks thrown at them until they’re bloody and dead.

  20. EOS
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    More lies and mis-characterizations from the dude. Yawn.

  21. Posted September 24, 2009 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Admit it, you got hot thinking about all those faggots’ brains bleeding on the pavement.

  22. Robert
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    EOS, I never said you weren’t going to heaven, and I never said you weren’t “saved.” I said you were not a Christian.

    Jesus wasn’t talking just to hear himself speak. There were reasons he said the things he did. He didn’t say those things just to convince you he was God’s son, nor did he say them as pure rhetoric meant to mesmerize you. He meant what he said. The challenges he posed to his followers were posed in all sincerity. He asked things of you. You may be “saved” or get into heaven regardless of whether you heed his words, but that doesn’t change the fact that he spoke those words sincerely, and you choose to ignore them.

    A Christian is a FOLLOWER of the teachings of Christ. Over the many years, you and your backsliding kind may have convinced yourselves and each other that there is a different meaning to the concept…a much looser one meant to allow you to feel comfortable and self-satisfied in your stagnation and avoidance…but that is all you’ve done. You haven’t changed the meaning of his words, the truth to them, or made the fact that you don’t heed them alright in any way.

    It’s embarrassing to feel I have to say it, because I think it is so obvious, but I am not a Christian. I do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. I do however very much respect what he is said to have done, and the lessons he is said to have tried to impart to others. I would not disrespect the truth he spoke by conjuring up my own lies in relation to it. I choose to honor his honesty with my own honesty when speaking about him or the lessons he tried to teach.

    The reason I feel I’d have to actually come out and say I am not a Christian is because of how much you and your kind have loosened the definition. Any sick piece of unrepentant garbage can rightfully claim “Christianity” by your new twisted definition, and most do. In doing so, you have all effectively buried the lessons in what Jesus said, and you’ve stained his most honorable legacy…the legacy of complete and utter self sacrifice for love…a love of humanity, or all of God’s children as some might prefer to say it.

    EOS, you don’t need to wonder about my motives. As I have said, I treat this subject with utter honesty and seriousness, out of respect for the subject. I would do the same for many others whose life strategies I may not agree with but whose motives I find to be honorable. So, if you have any specific questions about my motives, all you’d need to do is ask.

    The reason I am attacking you now is because I’ve grown tired of your moral and intellectual laziness, especially in light of your utter self-satisfaction and hypocrisy. If you are truly a person with any moral character you will reflect on these things and not just keep acting on the impulse to deny and cover them up.

    Of course I have no say in your fate, and my assessments of you are simply my own. This is absurdly obvious and you don’t need to keep pointing it out. I’m pretty sure nobody is going to mistake me for a messenger of God. And you should be very grateful that your fate does rest in God’s hands and not mine.

    So, you call yourself a “Christian” and yet in all the time we have been arguing I haven’t once seen you quote Christ. Don’t you find that interesting? You have quoted the bible somewhat, so maybe you should be identifying yourself as a Biblian or something. I just find it absolutely revealing that a person who says “Christ” over and over never seems all that interested in what he said.

    I imagine other teachers, Mark H for example, and the things they must teach in their courses. I wonder how Mark H would feel if I went around professing to be a follower and deciple of his, and then never once mentioned the subjects he taught or any details relating to his classes. On the extremely rare occasion when someone might have the nerve to question me about this, I would just say, “I have accepted Mark H as my professor. I am guaranteed a degree.” When they noticed dramatic differences between my own ideas and claims and those of Mark H, I’d just recite the mantra that I had been accepted into his class and that I would be graduating.

    Mark H is certainly a much more diplomatic person than I, and would handle a person making such claims accordingly I am sure. However, if it were me, and some lying sack of crap was going around claiming to be a follower of mine and in no way representing the things I believe in, I would swiftly hunt this asshole down and beat the living shit out of him. But that’s just me.

  23. Steph's Dad
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Let he who has not popped a boner at the thought of homophobic violence cast the first stone.

  24. EOS
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Robert –
    The sad fact is if you are not a Christian, than you are not born again, and you will not spend eternity in heaven. Jesus Christ said, “”I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. “

  25. Robert
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    EOS, I don’t see why that would be a “sad fact” as you say. Isn’t it a good thing that all people have to do is be “born again” and their in. It sure beats the heck out of having to actually listen to anything Jesus tried to teach.

  26. Robert
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    …and EOS, I am saying that when Jesus said “no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” he was saying that you had to truely be transformed by your new knowledge of him and what he taught. I doubt when Jesus used the expression “born again” he was referring to the experience of a simple ritual that required no spiritual awakening.

  27. EOS
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    Nor have I said that being born again was a simple ritual that required no spiritual awakening. But not wanting to pay for buses in another community, or advocating for less government are not issues that disallow me from being a Christian. If the government confiscates less of my hard earned money, I could give more to fund food, housing, clothing, and provide for the educational needs of a child who might otherwise starve. Shouldn’t the person who earns the money have a choice in determining the charity to which the money is given?

  28. kjc
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    EOS, your spiritual motivation is the same as your economic one: self-interest. If you want to inflate it (conflate it) with piety, that’s usual. But it’s not about “not wanting to pay for buses in another community.” It’s about your narrow idea of community, which is ironic considering your supposed Christian ideals.

    But then you know all this. You’ve been told a thousand times what people find hypocritical and disingenuous in your positions and you don’t listen or care or find anything persuasive except what matches up with what you already thought anyway. The intellectual dishonesty of it is what i find most galling. The lack of humility is what i find most tragic.

    I must meditate more so that you don’t annoy me so much. Cuz you sure as hell ain’t changing. You don’t learn anything from others. You just further entrench yourself in what you’ve already decided is true.

    I do wonder why you come to this blog and engage so much to learn so little. Some process of self-aggrandizement i suppose. i’d need to be your shrink to know.

  29. AOL mom
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    I found some archival footage of EOS:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG3MZXIZAyU

  30. Brackinald Achery
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    Good on ya, EOS.

  31. Andy Ypsilanti
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    I love how no other religions, or their moral values, seem to exist in any of this discussion. I guess the rest of the world is evil and is going to hell… I hear they have more fun down there any way ;-p

  32. kjc
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    well i’m not a christian and my moral values are represented in my comments. but then, if i were a christian, i doubt i’d be talking about it.

  33. Brackinald Achery
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    Speaking against having your money taken from you against your will is just plain selfish.

    Jesus would compel people to be generous to causes they might not agree with, and if they refused, he’d have his disciples tazer them, tackle them, and throw them in prison. If they resisted, he’d have his disciples shoot them.

    That’s what Jesus would do.

  34. wetdolphinmissile
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

    “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.”
    Love, compassion, and forgiveness towards one’s neighbor will bring peace in your relationships. And your Heavenly Father will be merciful with you! Jesus reminds us that whatever “you did to the least of my brethren, you did it to me .”

    1 Feed the Hungry
    2 Give drink to the thirsty
    3 Clothe the naked
    4 Shelter the homeless
    5 Comfort the imprisoned
    6 Visit the sick
    7 Bury the dead

    The Spiritual Works of Mercy
    1 Admonish sinners
    2 Instruct the uninformed
    3 Counsel the doubtful
    4 Comfort the sorrowful
    5 Be patient with those in error
    6 Forgive offenses
    7 Pray for the living and the dead

  35. Brackinald Achery
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    8. Skip the aforementioned and make everyone else do it, reluctantly and under compulsion, or else the cops will come and get you.

    2 Corinthians 9:7 (New International Version)

    Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

  36. Brackinald Achery
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    At least crooked adulterer televangelists don’t send big guys with guns to throw you in prison for refusing to give.

  37. EOS
    Posted September 24, 2009 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

    Yes Andy,

    Without Jesus, eternity will be hell, and if you love your neighbor, you will try to get them to understand what has been revealed in the Bible while there is still time to make an eternal difference in their lives.

  38. Disbeliever
    Posted September 25, 2009 at 5:31 am | Permalink

    That sounds like a cult.

  39. Oliva
    Posted September 25, 2009 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    I am almost sure that some “crooked adulterer televangelists” and their allies do some things that might seem like being thrown in prison, influencing countries’ adoption policies, for example. And those activist Mormons (but some Christians say Mormons aren’t Christians) did some real harm in California last November, which to someone kept from his or her loved one at a critical moment in life might feel even worse than prison.

    A friend was telling me about her friend’s work in Arkansas–she worked with women in prison who had been abused, teaching them life skills, helping them feel more empowered so that they would have a chance once they got out, other valuable things. She worked devotedly and had great results. But a while back she had to stop because she was repeatedly threatened by Christian workers who were teaching these women that their sinfulness is what got them where they were and who claimed that her work was dangerous. They basically warned her not to come back and intimidated her enough that she stopped going.

  40. Robert
    Posted September 25, 2009 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    Me and EOS are saved, and that’s all that matters. Fuck all that other shit.

  41. Brackinald Achery
    Posted September 25, 2009 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    So far the nuttiest, most dangerous sounding person I’ve seen here is a Buddhist.

  42. Steph's Dad
    Posted September 25, 2009 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    I am a Christian. I’m not the rapturing variety, though. That idea that God was going to call some people up to heaven, leaving the rest to suffer for eternity never really sat right with me. Seems cultish. The God I believe in isn’t vindictive or petty. He wouldn’t sentence a small child to an eternity of pain and suffering just because he hadn’t been baptized.

  43. Andy Ypsilanti
    Posted September 25, 2009 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    Kiss my agnostic ass, EOS. Q: What has started more meaningless wars than anything else in history? A: RELIGION. If there is a god, I’m pretty sure it would damm self rightous ass holes.

  44. EOS
    Posted September 25, 2009 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    Steph’s Dad –

    The Bible doesn’t say anything anywhere about sentencing a small child to an eternity of pain and suffering just because he hadn’t been baptized. What makes you think that is true? But Jesus did have a lot to say about the reality of eternal hell for some.

    What exactly do you mean when you say, “The God I believe in”? Do you think there are many Gods and we pick the one we like best? I’ve heard that phrase before and it always makes me wonder. Can a created being select the traits and disposition of his Creator? Can you pick the parts of the Bible you agree with and disregard the rest? Do you think the entire Bible is true? I’m not trying to argue with you, just curious as to what you mean by those words.

  45. stella
    Posted September 25, 2009 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    I’m a Buddhist and I’m have a difficult time believing that the other person Brackinald is referencing is acting in their capacity as a possible Buddhist. We have all kinds of sects so many fairly extreme differences can be accounted for, but not usually to that extent. The sect I belong to is actually very, very close to the one being claimed. It does not appear to follow.
    I have however, worked a fair bit with schizophrenia and the delusional part of bi-polar spectrum, and that does seem to follow.

    “By their acts shall ye know them”

  46. Dirtgrain
    Posted September 26, 2009 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    From Genesis Chapter 22:

    1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did prove Abraham, and said unto him: ‘Abraham’; and he said: ‘Here am I.’

    2 And He said: ‘Take now thy son, thine only son, whom thou lovest, even Isaac, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt-offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.’

    Hypothetical: I have a dream that God tells me I must sacrifice my son. What should I do?

    Note to self: the Bible is a terrible field guide.

  47. Robert
    Posted September 26, 2009 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    EOS: “Can you pick the parts of the Bible you agree with and disregard the rest?”

    Uh, yes, a person could just focus on the part about being saved and ignore all the other lessons Jesus taught. That other shit doesn’t have anything to do with how a person gets into heaven so why bother.

  48. EOS
    Posted September 26, 2009 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    Dirtgrain –

    To your question, if you have that hypothetical dream, especially if it’s reoccurring, you should check in for observation on a psych ward.

    Abraham was a special case. God had already spoken to him at the burning bush. He promised him a son, and then when Abraham was 100 and his wife was 90 they had Isaac. God had already made a promise to him, in three parts. It’s significant that the covenant offered by God required nothing on Abraham’s part and was unconditional. God promised Abraham: land, offspring, and blessings for generations of families through him. God told him it was through his son Isaac that his offspring would be reckoned.

    Abraham trusted in the promises. When God asked him to sacrifice his son, Abraham knew that God had already promised him generations of descendants. If he killed Isaac, he figured God would raise him from the dead. (Heb 11:17-19)

    When Isaac was helping his dad pile up the wood for the sacrifice, he asked him what they were going to sacrifice. Abraham said that God would provide a sacrifice. (Gen 22: 6 – 8) And after the angel stopped Abraham from continuing, a ram appeared and was sacrificed.

    This event foreshadows the Gospel of Jesus. God killed his only Son, because he knew he would be resurrected. He provided the sacrifice for us. And significantly, God considered Abraham righteous as a result of believing in God, not because of any good works that Abraham did. (Rom 4) In a similar manner, we are saved by faith in God, trusting that Christ’s shed blood has paid for our sins, not by our obedience.

    Christians are motivated to obey God and all His teachings, not because it has shit to do with whether or not a person gets to heaven, but because of our gratitude for what He has already done. Our future in heaven is already secure.

  49. Brackinald Achery
    Posted September 26, 2009 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    Abraham was a special case. God had already spoken to him at the burning bush.

    You’re thinking of Moses.

    Child sacrifice was a common religious practice at the time and place. What made Abraham’s God different from other gods was that he ended up providing a substitute sacrifice Himself, just like Abraham thought He would. God already revealed that aspect of Himself through Abraham, to show that He was different from the other nations’ gods; so if you think He said the same to you, Dirtgrain, you’re just being a crazy person.

  50. Brackinald Achery
    Posted September 26, 2009 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    Usually I don’t bother capitalizing the pronoun “He,” but it helped lessen confusion as to which person I was talking about.

  51. Posted September 26, 2009 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    EoS can’t tell the difference between Abraham and Moses. What a moron.

  52. Oliva
    Posted September 26, 2009 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    From Washington Post, 26 Sept. 2009:

    Across the street from the service [a mass Muslim prayer service held on the west lawn of the Capitol on Friday], Christian protesters gathered with banners, crosses and anti-Islamic messages. One group, which stood next to a 10-foot-tall wooden cross and two giant wooden tablets depicting the Ten Commandments, was led by the Rev. Flip Benham of Concord, N.C.

    “I would suggest you convert to Christ!” Benham shouted over a megaphone. Islam “forces its dogma down your throat.” A few Christian protesters gathered at the rear of the Muslim crowd, holding Bibles and praying.

    At one point, organizers asked them to tone it down.

    “We would never come to a prayer meeting that you have to make a disturbance,” Hamad Chebli, imam of the Islamic Society of Central Jersey, said from the lectern. “Please show us some respect. This is a sacred moment. Just as your Sunday is sacred, our Friday is sacred.”

    The imperious, intolerant kooks don’t do any favors to all the principled Christians living here, not to mention Muslims and others.

  53. EOS
    Posted September 26, 2009 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    Thanks for the correction. My mistake.

  54. Oliva
    Posted September 26, 2009 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    And speaking of forcing “its dogma down your throat” . . . Mamma mia. If Flip Benham, using a megaphone to disrupt these people’s prayer service, had been staring in a mirror, would he get the irony of his remark? (And yet: irony is one thing, willfully causing others pain is another and really creepy.)

  55. Dirtgrain
    Posted September 26, 2009 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Ah. If God previously reveals His nature to me, indicates that he will resurrect my dead offspring, and tells me to kill my son, then I should follow through with it. I’m still working out the kinks in the field guide.

    The concept of mental illness was brought up. How is one to know when it is the true voice of God and not some manifestation of mental illness?

  56. Brackinald Achery
    Posted September 26, 2009 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    The proof is in the pudding, Dirtgrain. Go ahead and do it, and see what happens.

  57. kjc
    Posted September 26, 2009 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    my kind of Christian. the amazing Karen Armstrong.

    http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/karen_armstrong_makes_her_ted_prize_wish_the_charter_for_compassion.html

  58. Robert
    Posted September 26, 2009 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    EOS: “Christians are motivated to obey God and all His teachings, not because it has shit to do with whether or not a person gets to heaven, but because of our gratitude for what He has already done. Our future in heaven is already secure.”

    Oh, so it’s your lack of gratitude for what He has already done then. Ok, I wondered why you didn’t care about being a decent person, and that only being “saved” was important to you. Thanks for clearing that up.

    I like your approach, EOS. I don’t really like all that other stuff Jesus was teaching either. It just seems like too much of a challenge for people like you and me. I’m glad we are still getting into heaven though, ’cause that’s all that really matters.

    I am officially an EOSian. I am IN! Now I am going to go forth and spread the word of EOS. EOS wants us to get into heaven and not worry about all that other shit. This is the word he has given me, and it is what I will share in his name.

  59. Dirtgrain
    Posted September 26, 2009 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    “Go ahead and do it, and see what happens.”

    Thus was every religion born, perhaps.

  60. Posted September 26, 2009 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    “Thanks for the correction. My mistake.”

    That’s not a mistake. That’s ignorance. You’re clearly not much of a Christian if you can’t tell the difference between Abraham and Moses. What else don’t you know?

  61. Dirtgrain
    Posted September 26, 2009 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    Hey, even God got mixed up a few times.

  62. Robert
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Pete Piringer, public affairs officer for the DC Fire and Emergency Department estimated that between 60,000 and 75,000 people had shown up.

    That estimate is close to the one ABC made as well. I believe theirs was 50,000 to 70,000.

    I’ve been to dozens of DC rallies. Of all the photos I’ve seen of this one I think I can safely say there was not one photo with anything approaching 100,000.

    Any idiot who has attended a football game at the Big House should have a pretty good idea of what a crowd in excess of 100,000 looks like. I guess there are just a lot of people who don’t use their brains though. Why so many feel the rest of us should suffer through their stupidity is beyond me.

    The numbers Malkin, Fox and other folks like EOS tried to spread were flat out lies. Anybody who resorts to lies over such a simple matter can’t be trusted on any subject.

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