Gay-be-gone, the ex-gay crusade descends on Ann Arbor

It’s just been brought to my attention that this Thursday night, in Ann Arbor, there will be help available for those suffering from unwanted same-sex attraction. That’s right, professional de-gayers from the International Healing Foundation will be on hand at the Old St. Patrick Catholic Church from 7:00 – 9:00 PM to counsel the gay and their relatives, and, of course, sell their wares.

There is, however, a caveat. It should be noted that the man behind the International Healing Foundation, former Unification Church member Richard A. Cohen, was “permanently expelled” from the American Counseling Association in 2002 for – according to Wikipedia – “six violations of its ethics code, which bars members from actions which seek to meet their personal needs at the expense of clients, those that exploit the trust and dependency of clients, and for soliciting testimonials or promoting products in a deceptive manner.”

Here, for those who are interested, is footage of Cohen on CNN:

Given the society we live in, I can see how some who aren’t might want desperately to be straight. I can see how parents might want that for their children. And, I can see how, if someone were so inclined, it might be easy to take advantage of said people, the way psychic surgeons in the Philippines take advantage of Americans with cancer. While I imagine it’s possible that Cohen has the best of intentions, and really believes that he is helping the people he sees in his practice, there are just too many red flags for me to extend the benefit of the doubt, though.

[Thanks to Robert for bringing this to my attention, and getting me all riled up when I should be sleeping.]

This entry was posted in Civil Liberties, Observations, Other, Rants, Religious Extremism and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. Post a comment or leave a trackback: Trackback URL.

55 Comments

  1. Pete
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    I hope they make support groups for people who don’t want to be attracted to the opposite sex as well. This isn’t fair.

  2. Paw
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    If they could make it so I wasn’t attracted to anyone, or anything, I would be superhuman. It would be awesome.

  3. Paw
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    As long as we’re changing people, let’s have some fun and make all the gay men attracted to really old, really fat women. That would be funny.

  4. Brackinald Achery
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    If they could make it so I wasn’t attracted to anyone, or anything, I would be superhuman. It would be awesome.

    Would castration work? Or is that only if you do it before puberty? Anybody know?

  5. EOS
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    There is help available for those suffering from unwanted same-sex attraction every day. Tens of thousands of ex-gays are proof that change is possible. Contact Exodus International, Courage, Corduroy Stone, Love Won Out, and hundreds of other agencies that will help you. Why would anyone get “all riled up” about anyone seeking help to change a behavior that they are personally unsatisfied with? No one can force anyone to change, but persons who desire change should be encouraged to know many others have been helped and that change is possible. That some people try and fail doesn’t mean others can’t succeed.

    I tried and failed to quit smoking hundreds of times before I actually quit for good. The majority of smokers try to quit unsuccessfully, but they are not hurt or damaged by failing in an attempt to quit. From the earliest time I can remember I smoked. I smoked prenatally when my mother smoked. The house I grew up in was filled with second hand smoke from both parents. Some might say I was born a smoker. I was genetically predestined to smoke. But habits can be changed and there is hope for those who want to change.

  6. Curt Waugh
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Please, for the luvogod, somebody other than me take on EOS. I just threw up in my mouth and I have to go bang my head against a wall.

  7. Sarah
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    EOS, when did you decide to be straight? At what point in your life did you sit down, weigh the options, and decide who or what you were going to be attracted to?

  8. dragon
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    Posted April 9th, 2009
    Delaware Online
    By Doug Marshall-Steele

    Despite all scientific evidence to the contrary, many religious conservatives insist that gay people can and must become heterosexual, since they think homosexuality is a sinful choice rather than a human variant.

    Ex-gay “reparative therapy” or “conversion therapy” proponents assert that counseling, prayer and sometimes aversion therapy, exorcisms, fasting and lipstick-application seminars for lesbians are sufficient for flipping sexual orientation.

    The scientific community, however, resoundingly agrees that sexual orientation cannot be changed, and such “therapies” may in fact be harmful.

    The American Medical Association stated, “Most of the emotional disturbance experienced by gay men and lesbians around their sexual identity is … due more to a sense of alienation in an unaccepting environment. For this reason, aversion therapy … is no longer recommended.”

    The American Academy of Pediatrics warned, “Therapy directed at specifically changing sexual orientation is contraindicated, since it can provoke guilt and anxiety while having little or no potential for achieving changes in orientation.”

    The American Psychiatric Association went further: “There is no published scientific evidence supporting the efficacy of ‘reparative therapy’ as a treatment to change one’s sexual orientation.” And again, “The potential risks of ‘reparative therapy’ are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior.”

    The American Psychological Association agreed: “Medical and mental health professionals also now know that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be altered. Groups who try to change the sexual orientation of people through so-called ‘conversion therapy’ are misguided and run the risk of causing a great deal of psychological harm to those they say they are trying to help.”

    The “ex-gay ministries” answer these bristling position papers by carefully parsing their definition of success. Rather than sexual orientation transformation resulting in, say, heterosexual marriage, they define success as the ability to resist homosexual urges. Critics see this as temporary suppression of one’s sexuality, nothing more.

    Also, these groups curiously keep no long-term follow-up records to scientifically validate their success rates, relying only upon anecdotal evidence. That has been problematic, though, as many founders, successive leaders and clients of these organizations have first claimed to be sexually reoriented and then reverted to homosexuality. Such persons often denounce “conversion therapy” as quackery.

    Another increasingly shrill and extremist proponent is James Dobson, co-founder of Focus on the Family, a conservative religious ministry. Over the years, Dobson has become obsessed with gay people and believes that one can simply “pray away the gay.”

    But according to “ex-gay” watchdog group Truth Wins Out, “In the past year alone, Dobson has conflated, purposely misconstrued or cherry-picked research from at least six esteemed academic scholars, who have publicly condemned him for misusing their work.” In October 2004, he actually told the The Daily Oklahoman, “Homosexuals are not monogamous. They want to destroy the institution of marriage. It will destroy marriage. It will destroy the Earth.”

    Yikes! Not only are they unscientific, these people are downright scary.

    I would especially implore the parents of gay kids everywhere to heed the advice of respected, science-based professionals and avoid exposing your child to the psychologically dangerous “reparative therapies.”

    Your child may differ from you, but is not broken and does not need repair.

  9. EOS
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    Dragon-

    Can you give me the references in the medical literature of the longitudinal studies that provided the evidence for the conclusions you cite?

  10. dragon
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    Well it will be a little easier than “longitudinal studies” provided by the agencies you mention. Such as the mission statement from Exodus International.

    –WHAT DO WE REALLY WANT?
    An important part of the change process is the “belief principle”. Jesus said in Mark 11:24, “What things so ever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.” We encourage people to joyously welcome Christ into their heart, to have a positive spirit about Christ and to expect changes to occur. We point out that Christ works daily, even minute by minute. An awareness must be developed to see what He is doing. He has not abandoned us, but is daily cleansing us.—-

    Doesn’t really get any more scientific than that, does it?

    Let the google be your straight friend. Here’s a start.

    http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/HTML/facts_bibliography.html

  11. EOS
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    Dragon,

    Your link has no longitudinal studies. How about this:

    Ex-gays?: A Longitudinal Study of Religiously Mediated Change in Sexual Orientation
    By Stanton L. Jones, Mark A. Yarhouse
    Published by InterVarsity Press, 2007
    ISBN 083082846X, 9780830828463
    414 pages

  12. Glen S.
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    In the video, Cohen demonstrates how two men cuddling up together on a couch and stroking each other tenderly is one of the steps necessary to become “un-gay.” Honestly, toward the end of the segment, I was pretty much waiting for the lights to dim, and for that weird background music to start …

    I’ll definitely stay tuned to see if their next report demonstrates the more “advanced” steps … but I’m guessing the video might not make it past the CNN censors.

  13. Robert
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    I knew I could get your goat and ruin your night with that one, Mark. It doesn’t bother me though. In fact, I like gay people being confused about whether or not they want to be gay. I’m sure it makes the sex way hotter.

  14. dragon
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    A Longitudinal Study of Religiously Mediated Change in Sexual Orientation
    By Stanton L. Jones, Mark A. Yarhouse
    _________________

    That article has never been published in a peer reviewed scientific journal. The authors are both on the faculty at Pat Robertson’s Regent University

    Selective observation: “For the vast majority it is not possible for them to change their sexual orientation . . . It may help 5,000 people, but harm 500,000,” He has also said that “the Christian Right”, with its intolerance of, and opposition to homosexuality, will use his findings in its campaign to prevent gays and lesbians from gaining civil rights protections.” – Dr. Robert Spitzer
    ____________
    So… are you saying if I pray hard enough for more money to appear in my bank account, it will?

  15. TR
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    Cohen’s claim to no longer be a member of the UC is horsecrap. I suspect he says this or distances himself from Moon so he won’t catch flak and potentially lose customers when people figure out his agenda is rooted in his “religion” which most people find troubling and is very homophobic. Moon has called for people with HIV/Aids to wear an “A” on their backs and be quarantined.

    Cohen’s son, Jarish, was matched in marriage to one of Moon’s main operatives, Chang Shik Yang’s daughter. The odds of that happening if Cohen were no longer a follower or promoter of Moon’s agenda are as long as it gets.

    Here’s a link to an article in 2008 about Cohen selling his snake oil at an event sponsored by Moon’s college recruiting arm, CARP.

    http://www.sovo.com/2008/4-11/locallife/flashback/8388.cfm

    This link is from Moon’s UPF TV with Cohen being interviewed by the past pastor Moon’s church in Washington DC and now editor in chief of the Moon owned UPI.

    http://uptv.org/play.php?27

    If you watch the old video of Cohen on the Daily Show it appears he’s a gay dude still trying to convince himself he isn’t.

    http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1210

    But the fact that he was permanently expelled from the American Counseling Association is all you need to really know.

    Sad to see the Catholic Church promoting Moon’s agenda, wittingly or not, given Moon’s claim to be the messiah here to fulfill Christ’s failed mission.

  16. EOS
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    A Review of Outcome Literature and Ethical Issues
    October 1998 (volume 20, p. 283 – 304), Journal of Mental Health Counseling
    By Warren Throckmorton, Ph.D

    Abstract
    In light of the American Counseling Association’s (ACA) recent resolution expressing concerns about conversion therapy, this article reviews the effectiveness and appropriateness of therapeutic efforts to change sexual orientation. The concept of sexual orientation is briefly reviewed, and found to be of limited clinical use. The article reviews successful efforts to modify patterns of sexual arousal from psychoanalytic, behavioral, cognitive, group, and religious perspectives. An ethical analysis of the ACA resolution is presented. The author concludes that efforts to assist homosexually oriented individuals who wish to modify their patterns of sexual arousal have been effective, can be conducted in an ethical
    manner, and should be available to those clients requesting such assistance.

    “The APA is too ** politically correct…and too ** obeisant to special interests!” said Robert Perloff, 1985 President of the American Psychological Association.

    Dr. Perloff delivered those uncensored remarks during a rousing speech to psychologists at the 2001 APA Annual Convention.
    In an expression of public anger and frustration, Dr. Perloff condemned the APA’s one-sided political activism. Of reorientation therapy with homosexuals, he said: “It is considered unethical…That’s all wrong. First, the data are not fully in yet. Second, if the client wants a change, listen to the client. Third, you’re barring research.”

    Other Professionals who Support Client Autonomy

    Robert Spitzer, M.D., the psychiatrist who is called the “architect of the 1973 diagnostic manual” that normalized homosexuality, expressed a similar concern two years ago about the movement within the mental-health professions to prevent sexual-reorientation therapy. Describing his own study, which he would later announce at a panel discussion at the 2000 Psychiatric Association convention, Dr. Spitzer said:
    “I’m convinced from people I have interviewed…many of them…have made substantial changes toward becoming heterosexual. I came to this study skeptical. I now claim that these changes can be sustained.”
    About exclusive homosexuality, he conceded, “I think, implicitly, there is something not working”

    Dr. Raymond Fowler, CEO of the American Psychological Association, says that his interpretation of the APA’s position on reparative therapy is that those who wish to explore developing heterosexual feelings or behavior have a right to do so as part of every client’s right to self-determination.

    Dr. Brent Scharman, former president of the Utah Psychological Association, considers himself a “typical” psychologist–not an activist on either side of the homosexual issue–and he says that all homosexual individuals should have the right to pursue change. It is the client, he says, who should determine the direction of the treatment.

    Dr. Warren Throckmorton, immediate past president of the American Mental Health Counselors Association, studied a broad cross-section of research on sexual-orientation change. He says such treatment has been effective, can be conducted in an ethical manner, and should be available to those clients requesting such assistance.

    Dr. Martin Seligman, 1998 President of the American Psychological Association, cites research in his book What You Can Change and What You Can’t that is optimistic about change for those who have had fewer homosexual experiences and/or some bisexual.

    In a recent paper in the premiere academic journal Psychotherapy, and again in the American Journal of Family Therapy, Dr. Mark Yarhouse of Regent University made a powerful case for such therapy:
    “Psychologists have an ethical responsibility to allow individuals to pursue treatment aimed at curbing experiences of same-sex attraction…not only because it affirms the clients’ right to dignity, autonomy and agency…but also because it demonstrates regard for diversity.”

  17. Glen S.
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    EOS: Do you really need reams of statistics and “longitudinal studies” to understand this? A quick look around society (and our own families) quickly reveals a startling fact: People differ remarkably in their physical appearance, temperament, attitudes, preferences and orientations.

    If people routinely grow up to be tall, short, thin, fat, light, dark, hairy, bald, whatever … is it any surprise that some people also turn out to be sexually attracted to members of their own sex — or both?

    I’m being serious when I say I can’t imagine why religious fundamentalists care SO much about this particular issue. Other than among people I know personally, I couldn’t be less interested in

  18. Posted April 21, 2009 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    I think that burning gays and lesbians in ovens is a better option.

  19. Jim
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    A surgeon–well, not an MD, but a guy with a master’s degree in science–travels around the country offering to shorten or lengthen the femurs of excessively tall or short persons. A strong scientific consensus holds that this operation has little chance of success but is very likely to cause harm. This medical entrepreneur is hosted by a network of churches which teach that excessively tall and short people are intrinsically disordered and deeply displeasing to God. When the surgeon comes to town, clerics encourage their congregants to bring in their height-aberrant children for surgery.

    Reparative therapy doesn’t work, but it does cause significant emotional damage. The issue is not whether people should be allowed to seek this ‘treatment’; rather, the point is to expose the charlatans who offer this ‘therapy’ and to protect young people from them.

  20. Dirtgrain
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

    On first reading Mark’s post, I thought, “mockumentary.” It has a lot of potential. But really, if one did a documentary of Cohen, it would likely seem to be a mockumentary anyway. Still, I’m wondering what we could do with it.

    How on earth was the un-gaying curriculum derived? Who derives these things? What is the curriculum, exactly? Do they strap people down, pin open their eyelids, and give them the Clockwork Orange treatment? Or are stereotypes employed? For gay males, maybe they praise football and berate musicals (or use some kind of shock collar to extinguish urges and reward stereotypical heterosexual responses). Is it based on behaviorism or psychoanalysis or something else? I have a hard time seeing legitimate scientists creating the curriculum. But Cohen (doesn’t that name mean “priest”?) is a charlatan–not a scientist. His curriculum must be more absurd (and sicker/sadder) than I can imagine. What a crazy world.

    Why is a Catholic church welcoming a Moonie? Strange bedfellows? Or maybe not.

    From the Charityadvantage site that Mark linked ():

    • Identifying the causes of same-sex attraction (SSA)
    • Developing a comprehensive treatment plan for healing
    • Using therapeutic strategies in each stage of treatment
    • Creating affirmations for healthy gender identity
    • Assisting clients in establishing healthy friendships and mentors
    • Protocol for group therapy and support groups
    • Preparing former SSA men and women for dating
    • Psychodynamic therapeutic modalities for greater healing: Focusing / Voice Dialogue / Bioenergetics / Psychodrama / Inner Child / Family Constellations / EMDR / Healing Body Image Wounds / Healthy Touch
    • Working with families and the religious community
    • Strategies for parents with SSA children
    • Taking care of the caregiver to prevent burnout
    • Socio-political issues of the gay rights movement

    Well, that doesn’t clarify much. Does anybody have knowledge about what they actually do in these programs?

    What if a fly was accidentally allowed into the un-gaying chamber when it was activated? “Ahhhhh, she’s been turned heterosexual, but she’s part fly. Run for your lives.”

    Much potential for jokes, but it’s really a sick concept–the idea behind these programs. That some children might be forced to participate is the worst part of it. We must make that illegal.

  21. Nancy Karin
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    I find it interesting that you desire respect for your point of view and you denegrate and are rude to those with differing views…maybe you are a heterophobe? What happened to real tolerance and diversity? Where is the freedom of choice for those who desire to understand the the the root of their attractions?

  22. galan
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    Call me a slow learner, but I am always surprised by the lengths some people will go to make other people miserable.

  23. Posted April 21, 2009 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

    Nancy, I think you may have misread what I said in the post. I never said that people shouldn’t be able to express their views, seek whatever kind of help they find of value, etc. And I’m far from being a heterophobe. (If you want, I can send you photos of me passionately kissing my wife.) You can search this site from top to bottom and you won’t find me once calling for the abolition of straight marriage. I just think that it’s interesting that the Catholic Church would allow a Moonie faith healer into their house of worship to peddle his pseudo-science nonsense.

  24. Nancy Karin
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 6:35 am | Permalink

    To be quite honest. This is the first time I have participated in the blog. I thought I was responding to all. I guess I was responding to you personally.
    There is junk science. The science that does not do the studies properly. The studies that do not tell you about the real subjects and way they do the studies. You may find this summary and results from many studies interesing as I did.

    http://www.gaytostraight.org/IS GAY TO STRAIGHT POSSIBLE.doc (Summary of scientific research on a variety of therapies)

  25. Curt Waugh
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 6:56 am | Permalink

    Mark, you have drawn out the 20-percenters on this issue. (They used to be 30-percenters, but that bubble popped.) There is a certain group of people, no matter what you say to them, who just believe what they believe and won’t change for any reason whatsoever.

    You could put EOS in front of a red wall. If his belief system told him the wall was blue, he would insist on it — even if you threatened his well-being. Reason here is meaningless.

    We, the choir, keep preaching to each other, convincing no one of anything. Our only hope at this point is to continue to push our political and social systems to recognize what the vast majority of people already believe: there isn’t a single thing wrong or remotely unnatural about being gay. Nothing. Our proper course of action is to shove the 20-percenters into the dark little corner of their own shriveled hearts. They can no longer be allowed to hold our country hostage to their mindless points of view. Freedom for everybody!

  26. Posted April 22, 2009 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    The church has gone to great lengths to control people’s desires to fuck, masturbate and fantasize about all kinds of things and completely failed. In the process, they have reaped untold unhappiness and suffering and ostracized potential practitioners. When are they going to figure this out?

    Personally, idiots like EoS harden my anti-Christian stance. I’ll never go back.

  27. Paw
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    Is anyone planning to attend this event?

  28. Pete and Pete
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    Contact information for the church.

    Old St. Patrick Parish
    5671 Whitmore Lake Road
    Ann Arbor, MI 48105
    phone: (734) 662-8141
    fax: (734) 994-9136
    carlap@parishmail.com

  29. EOS
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    Curt – I’d say it’s 70%. That’s the margin nearly every time same sex marriage is voted on by the people. Most of us do not change our opinion based on ridicule, or bandwagon tactics, or emotional appeals. I’m persuaded by scientific studies, not political rhetoric. Many of the sex acts engaged in by gay males are unnatural and detrimental to their health. That’s the facts. CDC studies, as well as a multitude of medical journal articles, have provided ample evidence. And it’s not just AIDS, but more often a whole complex of other illnesses.

    But adults should make their own choices and what two consenting adults want to do in the privacy of their homes is their own business. I dislike the agenda of some who are hostile towards persons who have tried the lifestyle and decided to change. Most gay males will rant and tell everyone that change is impossible, they are helpless victims of a orientation that they had no part in choosing, while most lesbians are equally hostile in claiming that their sexual preference is entirely of their own choosing and that they are not a victim of genetic happenstance.

    I’ve listened to many homosexuals who want to change at ministry conferences. They are typically kind, loving individuals who desperately want intimacy with others but haven’t found the love they are seeking in any same sex relationship that they’ve tried. I’ve seen the pain caused by the abandonment of their former friends once they choose to be celibate or to seek the help to change. I’ve read books written by former homosexuals who have successfully changed. And I’ve heard about the funerals of homosexuals who committed suicide because others convinced them that change was not possible and they lost all hope.

    Many who have experience in the homosexual community despair at the lack of commitment. They often don’t want to meet sexual partners in public parks and restrooms. They don’t experience real love through a cornhole in a peep show booth. They aren’t fulfilled by paying teen boys for participating in sex acts. They are frightened by many of the “roles” played by more flamboyant members of the gay community. There’s a whole lot that goes on within the homosexual community that most heterosexuals know nothing about. The incidence of domestic partner abuse between homosexuals is significantly higher than between heterosexuals.

    So if I or someone else want to reach out to those who are hurting and offer help or a shoulder to cry on or just to be there to listen or give encouragement there shouldn’t be opposition. The Bible itself says there will be many in heaven who were former homosexuals. The question is – why does your narrow minded bigotry want to deny others a real choice?

  30. Posted April 22, 2009 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    No, EoS, you would celebrate gays, Jews and blacks being burned in ovens.

  31. Jim
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    Paw, if I didn’t have plans to go out for dinner with my husband tomorrow, I’d be tempted to go see Richard Cohen in person. Here is his hilarious appearance two years ago on the Daily Show:
    http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=83966&title=Diagnosis:-Mystery-Pt.-2

    EoS, I appreciate that your beliefs are sincerely held, so I’ll try to respond to a few of your points.

    Public attitudes on same sex marriage are rapidly changing. I recommend Nate Silver’s recent analysis:
    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/04/will-iowans-uphold-gay-marriage.html
    Related posts:
    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/04/gay-marriage-by-numbers.html
    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/04/plurality-of-new-yorkers-support-same.html

    The negative stereotypes of gay men that you repeat bear little resemblance to the lives of gay men I know. (A cornhole at a peep show? Really?) I would argue, however, that insofar as some gays and lesbians are unhappy about their sexual orientation, this unhappiness results from negative attitudes about homosexuality perpetuated not only by hateful bigots, but also by well-meaning people like you. Although your intentions may be good, by reinforcing the idea that homosexuality is harmful and that homosexuals need to change, you are helping to create the very unhappiness you cite as evidence of the inferiority of homosexuality.

    As for scientific studies, you and I have previously debated the validity of scientific studies in a field in which neither of us is an expert (stem cell therapy, IIRC), but if you want to pick out the best study on Cohen’s site, I’ll read and respond to it.

    [Hey, Mark, how about adding an easy html editor so we don’t have to stink up your comments with unwieldy links?]

  32. kjc
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    “The Bible itself says there will be many in heaven who were former homosexuals. The question is – why does your narrow minded bigotry want to deny others a real choice?”

    EOS, your shit is so dumb.

  33. Posted April 22, 2009 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Ezekiel 27:4 “And God so spake that there shall be many flamers in heaven.”

  34. Brackinald Achery
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    But adults should make their own choices and what two consenting adults want to do in the privacy of their homes is their own business.

    EOS doesn’t seem to be trying to force his views on anybody, unless I’m reading it wrong.

  35. kjc
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    “Most gay males will rant and tell everyone that change is impossible, they are helpless victims of a orientation that they had no part in choosing, while most lesbians are equally hostile in claiming that their sexual preference is entirely of their own choosing and that they are not a victim of genetic happenstance.”

    (huh?)

    I’m not too worried about EOS forcing his views on anybody. Not with that logic. I’m awed by the science of mostness.

  36. Posted April 22, 2009 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    I think that EoS is secretly gay.

  37. Glen S.
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    “Many of the sex acts engaged in by gay males are unnatural and detrimental to their health. ”

    So, does that mean that, in your book, Lesbian sex is O.K.? Also, are you suggesting that there are no heterosexuals who engage in sex acts that some might consider “unnatural” or unhealthy?

    “And I’ve heard about the funerals of homosexuals who committed suicide because others convinced them that change was not possible and they lost all hope. … Many who have experience in the homosexual community despair at the lack of commitment. They often don’t want to meet sexual partners in public parks and restrooms. They don’t experience real love through a cornhole in a peep show booth. They aren’t fulfilled by paying teen boys for participating in sex acts. …”

    Thanks, EOS, for pointing out some excellent examples of what happens when people are forced by intolerant homophobes to deny or hide a fundamental aspect of their humanity.

    The fact is that as society becomes ever-more tolerant, and more people come “out of the closet,” many fewer LGBT people are likely to seek out unsavory, risky and/or dangerous outlets for their innate attractions and desires. In short, that’s exactly what the gay rights movement has been about — gaining the fundamental human right to express both affection and desire free from shame and social ostracism, and live in a more open, honest and healthy way.

    Meanwhile, it is people like you, who, by perpetuating the idea that LGBT people are so disordered that they need to “change,” or be “cured,” that continue to cause some LGBT people to continue living in shame and fear, and to devalue their very existence.

  38. Posted April 22, 2009 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    I must point out that EoS was the one calling for a stop to funding for public transportation because too many black people use it and she doesn’t feel safe.

  39. Curt Waugh
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    EOS:
    “…they are helpless victims of a orientation that they had no part in choosing…”

    THEY ARE NOT VICTIMS, GODDAMMIT!!!!! They are normal human beings who exist completely within the normal variation of humanity. If a normal person born with four limbs believes they should have one of them removed, they are diagnosed with a mental illness (there are known cases of this). How is this different?

    The only possible reason that anybody would even attempt to purge themselves of something so natural and personal is that either 1) they have a real mental illness or 2) they have been beaten down since birth by the childish attitudes, and not so childish actions, of fundamentalist bastards who can’t stand ANY variation within our population. Cruel, ego maniacal, control freak, overgrown boys who think that men kissing is so “icky” that anybody who engages in such activity is undeserving of common personhood.

    You (yes YOU EOS) and people like you cause this. You instill this horrible PTSD in gays. Every time they have a natural feeling, the zealous stings of years of derision drive knives into their hearts. You do this and you try to hide naked prejudice behind some pseudo-science. You try to come off as being so academic and gentlemanly, but you are a bastard. You hurt and you hurt and you don’t even seem to care. People here are telling you that your ideas and your words are incredibly hurtful and you just don’t care. But what really pisses me off is that you have no intention to learn. You have closed your mind and, for that, you deserve zero respect.

  40. Brackinald Achery
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    Oh come on. If someone doesn’t want to be a man, they have the right to get expensive surgery or whatnot to try to change it. If somebody doesn’t want to have sex with someone of their own gender, they have the right to pay some Moony to do a rain dance or whatever he does to try to change it. You can think and say anything is stupid or repugnant that you want, but people can do those things as consentual adults if they want; it’s a free country.

    Both the whole don’t-be-gay-or-else thing, and the celebrate-homosexuality-or-else thing are pushy immature intolerant baloney that makes me laugh. Grow up.

  41. Posted April 22, 2009 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    I think we should all be forced to be gay for a day, so that we can all see what it’s like.

  42. Jim
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    If people want to change their sexual orientation, they should of course be free to try. The problem with Cohen’s upcoming talk is that he will be using his pseudoscience to justify an anti-gay social and political agenda. Look at the flyer for the event, linked from this page:
    http://www.gaytostraight.org/Home.asp
    The stated goal of the event is to make audience members (including teenagers, parents, youth/teen workers, and youth ministers) into “agent[s] for change”–“change in your family, church, and community.” Arenas for change identified on the flyer include same sex marriage and “gay rights legislation,” as well as the “Process of Healing.”

    BTW, the sponsor of the talk is not Old St. Pat’s but “Heart to Heart… a Catholic Women’s Apostolate” (which has a Domino Farms mailing address):
    http://www.hearttoheartcwa.com/

  43. Brackinald Achery
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    We’re the only species on earth I can think of that blames others for our own actions, inactions, and/or failures (real or perceived).

    I guess that’s what makes us better than the animals… although animals seem to have a better grasp on moving on for self-preservation’s sake.

    Just an observation that has nothing to do with anything.

  44. stella
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    Two things:
    1) I’d like to disclaim A2 as the host of this event. Although the church has an Ann Arbor mailing address it is at east 2 miles outside of city limits.
    2) I’d vote for an everybody be gay day. As a hetero-identified bisexual in a hetero relationship I don’t get nearly enough woman time. Anybody know how to get hold of Dame Diana Rigg or Julie Newmar? I’d really like to be in their path that day.

  45. dragon
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    We’re our own Peeping Tom, peering in.
    On stage, we’re culture’s disguise,
    the way a bickering couple makes nice
    once the bell ding-dongs neighbors in
    for cocktails and unsalted Cheese Nips.

    Though we watch Oprah, we circle BBC News.
    Though it’s Jerry Springer, we mark Charlie Rose.
    No no no. Not South Park, not Cops,
    not World’s Funniest Animal Tricks,
    but History Channel and Discovery,

    NASA Live, Nightline, and Devotionals,
    the Food Network’s Thanksgiving Day
    Vegan Special. We are watched watching,
    watching ourselves watched. We are never
    enough, so the lie is as we wish to be.

    Kevin stein

  46. Posted April 22, 2009 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    I dont think sexuality is like a toggle switch where one is either homosexual or heterosexual. I think there is a whole spectrum of sexuality where only a small percentage are at the ends and either totally homosexual or totally heterosexual. Most people are in the middle somewhere. I have always figured that the success in ex-gay programs comes mostly from bi-sexuals who are able to find satisfaction with the opposite gender. Not that such a program is necessary. I have known more than one gay or lesbian person who decided that they really wanted kids and the easiest way to achieve that goal would be to be in a relationship with someone of the opposite gender. Some of those relationships have worked out too although it is funny to see a dyke talk about how much she loves her husband and then to have the husband say “I love her. She’s the only woman I know who’ll go to strip clubs with me and have a discussion about which women has the best tits”

    Anyways, I will admit that there have times when I have wished I were a lesbian. I always have such easy relationships with women. I wonder if the therapy works that way too. I wonder if I showed up at the church with a sincere desire to change, if they would assist me. I mean they would if their motive is to help people right?

  47. dragon
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    Ode to Lynne

    Wild nights! Wild nights!
    Were I with thee,
    Wild nights should be
    Our luxury!
    Futile the winds
    To a heart in port,
    Done with the compass,
    Done with the chart.

    Rowing in Eden!
    Ah! the sea!
    Might I but moor
    To-night in thee

    Emily

  48. kjc
    Posted April 22, 2009 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    I think the animals are far superior.

  49. Posted April 23, 2009 at 12:25 am | Permalink

    I’ve been thinking about small mammals lately.

    Some animals will practically rip their own faces off trying to get out of a cage. Some won’t. Some will run back and forth, slamming themselves against the sides of the cage to try to get out, incessantly, never giving up. Some just sit there, staring. They each seem to have different personalities/temperments, even within the same species. Each react to being trapped differently.

    No matter what their level of resignation or resistance, though, they are all incapable of freeing themselves from the cage.

  50. LAKE
    Posted April 23, 2009 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    What weirds me out is that Library Journal gave Cohen’s book a relatively positive review. From what I know, librarians are hired by Library Journal to write objective reviews. I am disappointed by the Library Journal’s publishing of a review that seems favorable to Cohen’s gay-cure techniques. I don’t know if Library Journal published an opposing viewpoint or not, but I sure hope they did.

  51. Posted April 23, 2009 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    I got my threads crossed. When I just read your comment, Lake, I thought that you were talking about Leonard Cohen, who I also posted about last week. I couldn’t figure out why you were questioning good reviews of his book. Then, of course, I figured it out… And, yeah, that’s weird.

  52. Posted April 23, 2009 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    dragon. that’s awesome!

  53. Posted November 19, 2009 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    This Utah politician, for one, is tired of having the gays “stuff it down (his) throat.”

  54. Accorcify
    Posted March 30, 2010 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    Can Somebody Help Me!!!

    I desperately want to turn Gay.

    I contracted with a man to help me, but 2 days ago I received a answering machine message from an anonymous source, and now I’m convinced that it’s a scam.

    I decided to file a complaint with the government and went nuts.

  55. embomeola
    Posted April 1, 2010 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    I have secret of being gay. It has been handed down through my family generation. I can share it with you if you can pay my way to the United States from Ghana. It is fools proof.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Connect

Sidetrack ad Aubree’s ad BUY LOCAL... or shop at Amazon through this link Banner Initiative Ark of Maynard