joining the air force to get closer to heaven

Is the Air Force crossing the line between church and state, and pushing Christianity? From One Good Move:

“I can tell you that twelve years ago the famous Air Force Academy parachute team the Wings of Blue was sanctioned by some idiot prince at the academy to parachute out of the azure blue Colorado skies carrying quote the keys of heaven on the same day that James Dobson opened up his campus for Focus on the Family across the highway. They landed down on the lawn and they walked over and handed him the keys of heaven. Hello, does anyone see a problem here Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, James Madison hello.”–Michael Weinstein, Air Force Academy Graduate

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  1. john galt
    Posted May 29, 2005 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    Thanks Mark, this is further proof of the end of civilization. Imagine a govt funded organiztation performing a ceremony for a large contingent of its funders. What’s next.. pretending the Koran is a magical book that shouldn’t even be touched by the unititiated (oh yeah, they’re already doing that).

    There is no separation of church and state. The only thing the constitution say is that the government can’t establish a religion. Why aren’t you hysterical when the Air Force flys over football games. Even though people are in the military they still have a right to participate in religious observance..

    The mind boggles at why you hate christianity so much.. Sure it has its faults, but so does everything created by man. At its core it is a very life-affirming belief system.

  2. Posted May 29, 2005 at 9:01 pm | Permalink


    at its core is socialism.

    try reading some jesus before you comment next time.

  3. Posted May 29, 2005 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    …and i might add,

    ” Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”…

    which means what mark says, not what you insinuate.

  4. mark
    Posted May 29, 2005 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

    One day, when I get around to it, I’ll launch a remedial version of, where we can keep going over the same material day after day. I think that you’d benefit from that, John. Unfortuantely, however, I don’t have the time to keep making the same points over and over here though. I’m sorry. If you scroll back though the archives, I’m sure you’ll find all the evidence that you need to prove that the founders did, in fact, envsion a clear separation between church and state though. Jefferson and others have said as much.

    As for your point about the Koran, I don’t think that it was the handling by non-Muslims that had people upset, I think it was the part about putting them in toilets.

  5. Doug Skinner
    Posted May 30, 2005 at 1:48 am | Permalink

    And let me add that separation of church and state doesn’t mean establishing a secular society; it means keeping the government secular so that citizens are free to practice the religions of their choice without interference. It doesn’t limit religion, it limits the government. Why are conservatives against that?

  6. mark
    Posted May 30, 2005 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    You wouldn’t have a problem with a Muslim putting a Bible in a toilet, would you, John? Or the Air Force dropping a parachute team into Mecca with the keys to heaven?

  7. ChelseaL
    Posted May 30, 2005 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    Who is John Galt?

  8. mark
    Posted May 30, 2005 at 11:29 pm | Permalink

    That’s a very good question, Chelsea.

  9. Posted May 31, 2005 at 12:32 am | Permalink

    well, I think chelseal knows the answer, but I’ll bite.

    He could be this guy, which I think is unlikely.

    most probably, we’re dealing with this john galt.

    and, if you’re a fan, then definitely check this page out.

  10. mark
    Posted May 31, 2005 at 1:07 am | Permalink

    This is just a wild guess, but I’m picturing him as a washed-up professional athlete living in an ex-urb outside of Atlanta… Call it a hunch.

  11. john galt
    Posted May 31, 2005 at 8:08 am | Permalink


    If muslims want to start flushing bibles more power to them.. It would be great to be a plumber if they all started doing that.. I certainly wouldn’t run out of my house, pull my hair out and start murdering people. You know Mark, the military also employs muslim chaplains (of course some of them have been arrested for treason.. but thats another matter).. As shocking as it seems the military has chaplains of all major faiths, not something you’d do if they wanted to establish christianity as the religion of the military.

  12. mark
    Posted May 31, 2005 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know how many different ways I can express to you, John, that I’m not a supporter of religious fundamentalism of any stripe. And that includes a quite large subset of the Muslim faith. A few years ago, when I was questioning the logic of our invasion of Iraq, you called me “a buddy of Sadam,” as though a person couldn’t be both against military action and against the leader of Iraq. It’s as though you couldn’t understand the complexity of it. Apparently the same thing holds true here with regard to Christianity. No matter how many times I explain it to you, you still can’t seem to grasp the concept that one could be critical of both the Muslim and the Christian faith concurrently. And, as I

  13. john galt
    Posted May 31, 2005 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    well since I am not baseball player you think I am, I have not been posting here for years. However monitoring your posts, You degrade christianity at every chance. Never is word said of islamic extemism. I haven’t seen anything one way or the other concerning judaism, but your unfailingly tacit support of islam makes me question your motives. I figure you were probably brought up christian and then something happened, so now you lash out against all christians.. I guess reading Marx can do something to you after awhile.

  14. Posted May 31, 2005 at 8:13 pm | Permalink


    I figure you were probably brought up communist and then something happened, so now you lash out against all non-capitalists.

  15. john galt
    Posted May 31, 2005 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    If I were brought up communist, I’d probably be bitching about the man keeping me down, and spending my time whining for the “working poor”. Instead I worked hard, made a life for myself through my own will. I’m a producer not a consumer. I guess I could have read Marx and Gerbels and whined about society, then claimed chapter 11 and whined about society….. I take responsibility for myself. Some people only want someone to blame for their transgressions.

  16. Posted May 31, 2005 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    i think you’re doing quite a bit of blaming in that last comment.

    you’re making a clear statement that anyone who’s poor deserves whatever they get, basically.

    PLEASE say something now about “Lifted up by bootstraps”. That would be great.

  17. john galt
    Posted May 31, 2005 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

    I would have, but I didn’t think you’d get it… From your comments I would have to say that you’re hopeless. You take no responsibility for yourself and blame others for all your problems. “If only the govt would save you”.. Its pathetic and sad/

  18. Posted May 31, 2005 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

    no, i think the argument is: “If only the government wasn’t run by corporations”.

  19. mark
    Posted May 31, 2005 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    Hmmm… “Sad and pathetic.” I was thinking the same thing.

  20. john galt
    Posted May 31, 2005 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    maybe you should rearrange you argument to fit your true meaning “if only the corporations were run by the Govt” .. To this end read up on national socialism.. Mein Kampt is a good primer for you.

  21. john galt
    Posted May 31, 2005 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    Embrace reality

    this site is banned in several countries

  22. chris
    Posted May 31, 2005 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    Well, if John is not the failed baseball player, maybe he can still shed some light as to why so few players are called up from the minors to the majors, and no he cannot quote “Moneyball”.

  23. Ken
    Posted June 1, 2005 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    I had my suspicions about you, Mark, but now I know: you are a Tacit Muslim. You probably passively pray to mecca.

  24. Posted March 13, 2006 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

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